Login | Register
 
Message Board | Latest Posts | Your Recent Posts | Rules

Thread: Sauron

Is this discussion interesting? Share it on Twitter!

Bottom of Page    Message Board > Characters > Sauron   << [1] [2] [3] >>
I seem to recall the taking shape in Dol Guldur being part of this bloody passage i can't seem to find (cos I'm not looking Wink Smilie )

And good on you for cutting back on the Goth thing Halo. I had no idea it was back until some kid accused me of it again in the pub a few weeks back (and again last night :o )
Halo: at that stage he doesn't have hands yet, no. But I can't say: gets his eye on it? Or his shape? Big Smile Smilie

I would look this up for you and help you out, but I still don't have a LOTR copy, so I can't... Sad Smilie
Also, nothing says Sauron's spirit couldn't fill and activate a suit of armor and cause two red glows to appear in the eye slit of the helmet. It is the old mind over matter bit. If he could control armies, he could manifest some semblance of a body, even if it wasn't real.
Good point, Grondmaster.
But I got the impression that his mind also was somehow located to a sigle point. That is mostly resing at Barad-dûr and that he is controlling his armies from there.
The eye that Pippin saw through the 'Eye of Sauron' ( i.e palantir) was Sauron's physical eye seen from the other side! And he was physically whole by then! He did it once, and and there's no reason why he couldn't do it again * !

* Insert the usual Sauron disclaimer bit
for sake of research..
does anyone know where Sauron originated from??
if he had mortal body once..or twice..or whatever, he must have been born sometime, then where? when?
what is he anyway, a wizard? or just a big bad personification of evil?
He is a maia from the undying lands just like Gandalf, Saruman and the other Istari and also Tom Bombadil (cos I say he is). He was turned to the dark side (forgive the star wars-ism) by Melkor/Morgoth and became his chief lieutenant. When Morgoth was cast into the void Sauron took over as chief B*stard on midle-Earth. Does that help, or are you just going to say "What?"
Quote:
Also, nothing says Sauron's spirit couldn't fill and activate a suit of armor and cause two red glows to appear in the eye slit of the helmet. It is the old mind over matter bit. If he could control armies, he could manifest some semblance of a body, even if it wasn't real.

He did look kinda cool in the movie didn't he? Smile Smilie Unfortunatly I seem to be the only one in my college class who thinks that Sad Smilie
You're the only one here who thinks so too, it seems.
Halo_Black: Don't take anything you read here personnal, cause we love you anyway. Smile Smilie Also, everyone is entitled to share their opinions, even the Plastic Squirrel and myself, who are wrong at least weekly.
Big Smile Smilie
thanks plastic..
that whole thing just went over my head.. *whoosh*
Big Smile Smilie lol...

welcome to the ranks of the clueless, Rosie...haha...
I'll have a think and try and explain it in easier terms..... Could be a mite tricky but I'll put it up later Rosie. And how many times do I have to tell you Grondy, I'm never wrong. It's just occasionally the space/time continuum goes a bit funny and what was previously right changes. Big Smile Smilie
Quote:
He is a maia from the undying lands just like Gandalf, Saruman and the other Istari and also Tom Bombadil (cos I say he is). He was turned to the dark side (forgive the star wars-ism) by Melkor/Morgoth and became his chief lieutenant. When Morgoth was cast into the void Sauron took over as chief B*stard on midle-Earth. Does that help, or are you just going to say "What?"


ok, went back and re-read, not THAT difficult to figure out. Just several questions.

what the hell is maia and where the hell is/are undying lands?

who or what the hell is Morgoth and why was he cast into the void?
My guess is (read: only guess) that the undying lands are the place you go to after the Grey Havens. You know, the elves were leaving ME at the end of LOTR, so they sailed from the Grey Havens to their land of origin. Suppose those are the undying lands.

Morgoth is the really evil Dark Lord (please don't ask where he comes from!!!), Sauron's master, the one who turned him into evil, like Plast said. It seems that he was defeated and destroyed somehow (could it be in the Sil cos I didn't read that?) and that Sauron took his place afterwards. Smile Smilie

Sauron looked horrible in human shape in the film! Not scary at all. Sad Smilie
Yes its all in the Silmarillion.
Maiar are one of the Ainur (spirits) that descended into Arda (the world) at its beginning. Gandalf, Saruman, Sauron & Melian were all Maiar. 'Maia' is the singular of Maiar.

Morgoth was a Vala. Valars are also spirits, but more powerful than the Maiar. Morgoth was called Melkor before the stole the Simarils & was cursed by Feanor, and was Sauron's 'boss'. He was cast into the void when the Valar took pity on the plight of the Elves, and sent an army to defeat him.

All this, and more are explained in the Silmarillion. Great book, and Tommy's just about to read it! Aren't you, Tommy? Wink Smilie

thanks Ungoliant.
Just as I thought, even more confusing and complicated. I wonder where Tolkien got his inspirations for these characters and their 'species' from?
Thanks Golly, I was worrying about how I was going to explain it without resorting to my usual "Read The Book!" offering. And the inspiration (if you ask me) comes from either the Norse orders of Gods, or possibly Hindu, both of which have major parallels.

I think Evil characters will always be defeated (in a Tolkien novel anyway) because they can't seem to comprehend the idea of doing something good just for the sake of it. Becase the villains are totally driven by greed or ambition, they do not think that anyone will do otherwise. Wheras the 'good' characters like the elves and co. seem to know exactly what the baddies want and will do! [Edited on 18/1/2002 by Grondmaster]
That's it exactly Rosie, Tolkien's bad guys can't think "outside the box". Their staffs were made up of 'Yes Men'; they had no contrarians or skeptics to keep them out of trouble. Which is why Saruman got caught off guard by the Ents when he emptied Isengard to take Helm's Deep. And is also why Sauron didn't post any guards or barriers at the Crack of Doom. [Edited on 18/1/2002 by Grondmaster]
Continuing my theme for today of clearing up mysteries, read this.
Quote:

One of the oddest changes from the book is that Sauron doesn't have a body; Saruman tells Gandalf that he isn't yet able to 'take physical form'. It's hard to see how this could be true - what use would the Ring be to Sauron, if he didn't have a finger to wear it on? The book makes it very clear that he does have a physical form - 'He has only four [fingers] on the Black Hand, but they are enough', says Gollum in The Two Towers. Actually, this does seem to be a misinterpretation rather than a deliberate change, because Peter Jackson has himself described Sauron in at least one interview as being a no more than a floating eyeball.

It's from my favorite resource again the old arda encyclopedia people, who know a lot more than we do!!
Huh? That's weird but true. What would Sauron want the ring for without a finger to put it on??? Daft! Smile Smilie

What about him being no more than a shadow without real life form. A bit like the Nazgul, but larger and more powerful. Like a shape without real form.

And Rosie, you're right. Smile Smilie
Maybe he has a big nose?
I kind of always though that Sauron didn't need to put the Ring on in order to have some of it's power...I figured that as soon as the Ring was in his possession, he'd have enough power to gain a physical body, and then he could put the Ring on.
Sauron IS able to take form still and he does have a form, but the form will always show hatred and he is never again able to take on fair hue as he did when he was Annatar ('Lord of Gifts') and was brought to the Isle of Numenor, in the Akallabeth he lost the ability to ever again take on a fair body but instead will always appear dark and cruel as his heart.
Hah! I knew it! Sauron had a body! Thanks, Plastic!

...pseudo-Simaril......for me?...
Not only that, but in the next sentence it says
Quote:
There he took up again his great Ring in Barad-Dur, and dwelt there, dark and silent, until he wrought himself a new quise, an image of malice and hatred made visible; and the Eye of Sauron the Terrible few could endure.
So I guess Ungoliant can have another Pseudo-Silmaril because even though the above quote took place before Isildur took the Ring, it is the same Eye seen by Galadriel, Frodo, and Pippin.
Hurrah!

So let me summarise:

1) During LotR, Sauron had a body minus the finger that Isildur chopped off (Gollum saw him)
2) The Eye of Sauron was actually the palantir plus his actual eye seen from the other side of the palantir? Not sure yet about that one.
Sounds about right to me Golly.
'k then. I can die happy now.
do you mean that the palantir was his physical eye, or are we speaking metaphorically?
I think we are saying the palantir was like a magnifying glass that made his physical eye more overpowering.
Why should it be his physical eye? He probably wont look into the Palatir with just one eye. So if it worked like a magnifying glass they would have see his whole face.
Maybe he was short-sighted and had to put his eye right up close to it to see? Wink Smilie
haha can you imagine sauron with glasses? Big Smile Smilie he would only wear them if he had to torture a prisoner personally, of course.



Rofl! Big Smile Smilie
I think that you can only see his eye through the Palantir.
Ooh! Me and my friend came up with a new one...BEWAIRE THE SPLEEN OF SAURON! BWAHAHAHA! Dunce Smilie
Quote:
You're the only one here who thinks so too, it seems.
So Angry Smilie Grrrrrr!
*pokes Plastic with a stick*
Well...okay, so he did look a bit chubby in the film... Very Big Grin Smilie Bwahahaha, bewaire the flab of Sauron!

[Edited on 19/4/2002 by Halo_Black]
Poking Plastic with a stick won't help you, Halo. His skin has grown too thick for that! :grin

Beware the what of Sauron? Dontgetit sorry! Very Sad Smilie
Flab Tommy! Flab, as in fat and chubbiness. Halo_Black thought the Sauron in the movie was a tad bit obese, stout, corpulent. Smile Smilie
He looked like Mr Blobby in armor Ha Ha Ha Smilie

[Edited on 22/4/2002 by Grondmaster]
Did he? I really must see that movie again! He kinda looked like the black prince to me... Not Very Evil Smilie at all though. Very Big Grin Smilie
Is it a pointy stick?
*with an evil voice* : It will be after I've finished with it! Very Evil Smilie
:P
Are you whittling Tom?
I don't even know what whittling is, but I probably will be, yes... :P
Quote:
Whittling is the art of removing small slices of wood from a larger piece with a pen, pocket, girl/boy scout, or Swiss-army knife, (seldom with sword or light sabre) in the hope that what remains will represent whatever it was the whittler had in mind in the first place. Often the result is merely a pile of shavings that can be used to start a fire and a pointed stick upon which a marshmallow, frankfurter, or fish which can be flambéed, toasted, or roasted when placed over the afore mentioned fire. Big Smile Smilie
Of course the pointy stick can be used as a prod to get the subject back on Sauron, even if it must only used from a distance to poke Plastic Squirrels and blue jacket wearing beings without suffering too much collateral damage. Ha Ha Ha Smilie
Still don't know where I could have been whittling... Big Smile Smilie

Anyway... Very Big Grin Smilie
:girn: I don't think I would, no. Very Big Grin Smilie
  << [1] [2] [3] >>