Thread: The elves
Also, there is the thinking of times as well, there is Finwë, Fëanor, Fingolfin, Fingon, Turgon and Ereinion Gil-galad the 6 Elf Lords of Nolder each in order of their rule, so there are many i suppose but not one main elf that rules everyone
What is the main elf in charges name?
Ingwë is the High King of all Quendi, according to the Silmarillion.
Michael Martinez explored an interesting concept in one of his essays.(It's All in the Family: The Finweans) He wondered in the essay if elves under a certain authority, say Fëanor, gave their free will (authority) to their leader. This would in turn exalt that leader among his people and allow him to make decisions for all of them without dissension. The host of a king of elves was generally leader of an extended family and supporting friends with their own families. (What we think of as a large tribe and its ruling chieftain or king.)
So each elf "tribe" had its ruler and although it would defer to other elf rulers, their own ruler was the one who made decisions for them. Elrond was the leader of the Noldor in Middle Earth in the 3rd Age by his descent from the house of Finwë, Fingolfin, Turgon, Idril and finally Eärendel. Each tribe had its own leaders and with elves they were generally able to work together without petty disputes.
At the close of the Third Age, Galadriel had out-grown her desire for power, which brought her to Middle-earth in the first place
According to the Silmarillion, at least.
After all, she was the last save for the Elrond (who was an infant at the time) of the Noldor (or part Noldor) of the First Age and with the death of Celebrian all of her family save Elrond, Elladan, Elrohir and Celeborn were in Aman, and those others soon to be.
There were still some other High Elves left in Rivendell. Glorfindel, among others (maybe Erestor too) and others from Lindon who stayed with Elrond after he founded Rivendell during the war vs the Dark Lord in the Second Age, and maybe some refugees of Eregion.
When does Glorfindel return to Middle-earth though? I honestly don't know, but the window of opportunity following the fall of Gondolin for him to return is pretty small; Earendil was already walking and talking, after all.
I think in the 2nd Age, during the wars between Gil-galad and Sauron, but I'm not sure. It might be mentioned in UT.
the only ones I recall in Middle-earth during the War of the Ring were Elrond, Galadriel and Glorfindel, and that last made a detour to the Halls of Mandos in the interim
Well if you were referring only to Noldor left from the First Age, then that's something else entirely - Galadriel & Glorfindel only, it seems, are named; I wouldn't call Elrond a Noldo, to me he's Peredhil.
Male elves gravitated toward group leadership positions because they generally fought the battles while women had their strengths and expertise in other areas.
There were about 800 Noldor who escaped the downfall of Gondolin and others of Noldor heritage who had escaped piecemeal from the destruction of their own realms. We only hear of the elven leadership in the stories of the Silmarillion but there were many others whom they led. Their stories were not told in the Silmarillion or LOTR but they were there.
Didn't Cirdan remain in Middle-earth for a while longer or did he travel into the West with the Ringbearers?
And I really can't see Elrond as more than an equal to Galadriel (at best.) Sure, he had Vilya, but Nenya is hardly a bauble itself. In the end, the same preference I stated above just makes that incomprehensible; Galadriel gazed upon the Two Trees, whose light 'twas said mingled in her hair, while Morgoth was safely held by Angainor; that she would meekly accede to the authority of a child of the last days of the First Age, the son of a babe weaned in her cousins (Elronds great-grandfathers) kingdom just seems absurd to me. I mean, c'mon, she who stared down Feanor and knew the first Minas Tirith when her brother built it is gonna roll over for Elrond???! Divided kingdoms ruled by coequals is the best status to which Elrond can aspire in my mind (though, as always, others are not responsible for or to the limitations of my mind. )
I agree with Virumor about Elrond not being an Elf, he chose their destiney when it was offered him, but he was still Half-Elven as was Arwen, though they both had more than 50% Elven blood.
I don't know if Elrond had more than 50% Elven blood, it comes to the question whether one regards Dior as an Atani or as an Elf : Eärendil was 1/2 Atani, 1/4 Noldo & 1/4 Vanyarin; Elwing was 1/2 Sindarin & 1/2 Atani OR she was 3/4 Sindarin & 1/4 Atani.
Hence Elrond would be 1/2 Atani, 1/8 Noldo, 1/8 Vanyarin, 1/4 Sindarin OR 3/8 Atani, 1/8 Noldo, 1/8 Vanyarin, 3/8 Sindarin, so Elrond would only have more than 50% (mixed) Elven blood if Dior was counted among Elves (I'd regard him as mortal, since Lúthien was mortal after her return to Beleriand from Mandos).
Interestingly, this would make Arwen 1/4 Atani, 1/8 Noldo, 1/8 Teleri, 1/8 Vanyarin, 3/8 Sindarin OR 3/16 Atani, 1/8 Noldo, 1/8 Vanyarin, 7/16 Sindarin, 1/8 Teleri (that is, if we follow the Silmarillion, where Celeborn is of the Sindar; in Tolkien's final version in UT Celeborn is of the Teleri of Alqualondë, for instance).
I'd thought Cirdan went with the (other) Ringbearers; remember, he was the original possessor of Narya, and besides, his charge was the Grey Havens, and with the passing of the last Eldar to Aman he finally went himself.
I don't think so; I think in UT it's mentioned that originally Narya & Vilya were kept in Gil-galad's possession, but he distributed Narya to Círdan shortly before the Dagor Dagorlad, whilst he gave Vilya to his herald, Elrond.
And as for Galadriel not bowing to Elrond's authority: was there ever any question of either of them bowing to the other? They seem pretty well harmonized in concert with each other. He would honor her as his mother-in-law -- and he probably gained some of his lore and wisdom from her -- but even a teacher and a parent can live to see their child and pupil rise in authority equal to their own. Youth does not always mean irresponsibility and authority is not always given to the eldest, especially when humility enters the picture.
Luthien may have been mortal after her return, but whether or not she can die doesn't change genetics. She was still half elf and half maia.
I'm not sure about that. Genetics isn't a part of Tolkien's works. It's fëa and hroa, not DNA and RNA. After Lúthien's return to Beleriand from Mandos, her fëa didn't change, but her hroa most probably did. She would still hold her 'powers', because they were part of her spirit, not her body.
Watson & Crick only revealed the double-helix structure of DNA when LOTR came out, in 1953, so JRRT certainly didn't know about this when he was writing his works.
This seems similar to the King in a feudal society to me.