Login | Register
 
Message Board | Latest Posts | Your Recent Posts | Rules

Thread: Gandalf, question about him

Is this discussion interesting? Share it on Twitter!

Bottom of Page    Message Board > Characters > Gandalf, question about him   
I don't know if this has already been asked, but I couldn't find it anywhere.
I am re-reading the LotR books, and have almost finished TTT. But a few things have raised some questions in my mind. First one is this:
After Pippin looks into the palantīr, Gandalf says that he was saved from a fatal error, that he was tempted to look into it himself. He also said that he would have been revealed to Sauron, and that would have been disastrous for Sauron to see him. Why?
My first thought on that was that Gandalf is a Maiar, and so was Sauron, and so Sauron might have recognized Gandalf as such and trebled his assault, and tried everything to kill Gandalf. That is how I read it anyways, but I want to know what other people think on that matter.

Another question is this: Gandalf said that Saruman still has power, while in Orthanc, to resist the Nine, and that he might even try to capture one. How would Saruman have been able to resist them, when most of his power was gone, or even capture one? And what is the power of Orthanc, that Gandalf refers to several times? The palantīr is no longer in there, but Gandalf still makes it sound like Orthanc has it's own special power. I am under the impression that the Keys of Orthanc are a word, or words, like the Tower of the Wolves that Sauron once inhabited in Beleriand, but I'm not sure.
Hmm, interesting questions. I haven't read LotR in over a year so my guesses might be a bit off...

I think that what Gandalf says about being revealed to Sauron could mean two things:
1) Sauron might still think that Gandalf is dead after falling to the Balrog & might not yet know of his new status/power as Gandalf the White.
2) The palantir would not only reveal Gandalf's presence to Sauron, but possibly also his intents or thoughts, if Sauron were to wrestle with him in his mind.

As for the other part of your question, i don't remember that part about Saruman maybe capturing one of the nine... will have to read that again.
But Saruman may have been able to resist the nine while inside Orthanc because it's nigh unconquerable. The ents tried to throw themselves against it to break it in their rage, but didn't even scratch the surface, so the building/tower of Orthanc has some power of its own.
It is possible that the keys are not physical, but rather words as you suggested, but then the nine or anyone else with authority and power might be able to find out what those words are... once the password's out then it's pointless. For that reason I'd like to think that they keys are actual physical keys, but with some kind of magical power.

That's just my thoughts....
Quote:
After Pippin looks into the palantīr, Gandalf says that he was saved from a fatal error, that he was tempted to look into it himself. He also said that he would have been revealed to Sauron, and that would have been disastrous for Sauron to see him. Why?
Sauron would immediately know about Saruman's defeat and decide to assault Minas Tirith immediately, hence before Gandalf's arrival and before the Rohirrim and the Grey Company could make it there. Thus, Minas Tirith would fall.

This would not necessarily have lost the war, since the war could not be won by arms anyway, but only by destroying the Ring. In fact, Gandalf looking into the Palantir and coercing Sauron into levelling Minas Tirith would've offered the perfect military distraction, even more effective than Aragorn revealing himself to Sauron - which was überhaupt not done for military reasons, but merely out of arrogance and bravado.

At any rate, I fail to see how an event of Gandalf revealing himself in the Palantķr would have been 'disastrous'. It seems General Gandalf was merely led by weak sentiments to save Gondor instead of sacrificing it to the rabid stormtroopers of death, and did not consider the ultimate goal: victory. Luckily for the West, the smoke & mirrors of the Last Debate proved to be enough to distract the Eye sufficiently. But perhaps, for the sake of Middle-earth's military text books, it would've been better if this gross military oversight would've been punished.

Letting Sauron conquer the whole of the West and then destroying the Ring, making him fall just as he had reached all he desired would've been so much sweeter a victory. And it would be reminiscent of Morgoth's fall at the end of the First Age, proving to those pesky pedantic historians that history doth repeat itself after all, rendering their continuing studies redundant.

Furthermore, it would teach any aspiring Dark Lord™ an important lesson: don't even bother trying to conquer the world!

Quote:
How would Saruman have been able to resist them, when most of his power was gone, or even capture one?
Saruman still had the power of his voice - the Maia Mind Trick. He'd only have to wave his hand around and the Nazgūl would do his bidding.

Quote:
And what is the power of Orthanc, that Gandalf refers to several times?
Ah, but who knows the secrets contained, the horrors lurking in that grim edifice?! Sometimes it is for the better not to know.
For whom dear Vir would the victory be sweeter? Who would even be able to attend the victory party ?


You said:
Letting Sauron conquer the whole of the West and then destroying the Ring, making him fall just as he had reached all he desired would've been so much sweeter a victory.
I think that might be the point Leelee: The vilest of characters feel if they can't win, then they should take out everyone else to ensure that nobody can. Bad! Smilie They feel it is a sweet victory if there is no one left to reap the spoils if they can't.
Quote:
Who would even be able to attend the victory party ?

Why, his fans of course: Clicky
And I suppose you're going to be the wineholder, Vir?