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Thread: Galadriel only to tol eressea?

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Bottom of Page    Message Board > Characters > Galadriel only to tol eressea?   << [1] [2]

By the way Nerwen... while I might niggle with this or that... in general I still think you have provided a pretty good argument for Galadriel here. Plus, niggling with details or canon, or whatever, means I get to post something about Tolkien or Middle-earth.

I think you raised yet another detail that I had not considered before, in this context at least (the Glorfindel detail).

Silmarillion, "From a letter by J.R.R. Tolkien to Milton Waldman, 1951"

"We learn that the Exiled Elves were, if not commanded, at least sternly counselled to return into the West, and there be at peace. They were not to dwell permanently in Valinor again, but in the Lonely Isle of Eressea within sight of the Blessed Realm." 

That answers it for me. In the Silmarillion Index, Tol Eressea is also described as the home of the Exiled Elves after the First Age. The main text says that Elves "might come even to Valinor", but this is somewhat ambiguous.

But as has been noted, the version that Tolkien wrote for the Silmarillion is not as vague as Christopher Tolkien's edited version...

 

'And when they came into the West the Gnomes for the most part rehabited the Lonely Isle, that looks both West and East; and that land became very fair, and so remains. But some returned even to Valinor, as all were free to do who willed; and there the Gnomes were admitted again to the love of Manwe and the pardon of the Valar; and the Teleri forgave their ancient grief, and the curse was laid to rest.'

JRRT, Quenta Silmarillion

 

The Gnomes are the Exiled Noldor, and we see that they did live on Tol Eressea for the most part, but all were free to return to Valinor who desired. And the index to my Silmarillion editions reads in part:

 

Tol Eressea '... and there dwelt many of the Noldor and the Sindar after the ending of the First Age'

 

The index is a bit of a question in my mind. Christopher Tolkien notes that he used his father's unfinished index for The Lord of the Rings to help plan his index -- for both Unfinished Tales and the Silmarillion -- but the indication seems to be that not every description is necessarily written by JRRT himself, CJRT indicating that he used some of the descriptions from his father's index.

Hammond and Scull note some of Tolkien's index descriptions in their guide to The Lord of the Rings, by placing '(index)' after a quote, but they do not note anything for Tol Eressea in any case.

The index entry in The Lord of the Rings itself (in the editions I have anyway), for Tol Eressea, is much briefer than that found in The Silmarillion.

That has nothing to do with the subject and maybe I even asked that (but I can´t remember) but someone on another board said that:

"I know Tolkien said he worried about Galadriel after her voyage to the West" So did he? I mean I do, but I never thought that he did too.

Does someone knows about that or recognizes that. That must be from the letters then. It´s the 13 th post on this page

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/archive/index.php?t-5907.html

I checked the letters published in 'Letters' anyway, and unless I missed something Nerwen, I couldn't find anything there. A footnote to draft letter 297 notes that Galadriel's personal ban was lifted and: 'So at the end we see her taking ship'.

And this is the same footnote that perhaps confusingly notes that Galadriel wished or prayed (in her lament) that Frodo be granted a: '... sojourn in Eressea, the Solitary Isle in sight of Aman, though for her the way is closed.'

Which leaves one wondering if Tolkien meant that Galadriel was likewise going to Eressea in theory (after her ban was lifted), or if he simply used this phrasing without really meaning that this need be her only destination -- and at least with respect to a permanent one, if the other letter comes into play.

Of course that's a big if in any case, as this letter dates to 1967 while the Waldman letter dates to 1951. Did Tolkien somehow remind himself of what he had written so many years ago to Waldman? Seems unlikely, although it could be that the idea that the Exiles were not to dwell permanently in Valinor 'persisted' in his head, or was at least in play when he wrote this footnote...

... or not

Anyway I can't recall, at the moment at least, what this person might be referring to.

 

Back to the Waldman letter for a moment: 'They were not to dwell permanently in Valinor again, but in the Lonely Isle of Eressea within sight of the Blessed Realm.'...

... Valinor is not Eldamar, although admittedly the second half of this sentence appears to rule out Eldamar as well -- as Eressea is supposed to be where they will dwell, even if Eldamar is not mentioned -- so I'm not sure why I took the time to split that hair!

Drat.

"And this is the same footnote that perhaps confusingly notes that Galadriel wished or prayed (in her lament) that Frodo be granted a: '... sojourn in Eressea, the Solitary Isle in sight of Aman, though for her the way is closed.'"

I think that just means that at the time, Frodo left Lothlorien Galadriel was able to go nowhere, not Valinor and Eressea also, since the way for her is closed. I don´t know how one could assume that she was, after the pardon, only able to go to Eressea. Dunno

 

"Back to the Waldman letter for a moment: 'They were not to dwell permanently in Valinor again, but in the Lonely Isle of Eressea within sight of the Blessed Realm.'..."

"... Valinor is not Eldamar, although admittedly the second half of this sentence appears to rule out Eldamar as well -- as Eressea is supposed to be where they will dwell, even if Eldamar is not mentioned -- so I'm not sure why I took the time to split that hair!"

So where is Eldarmar? It´s a part of Valinor, isn´t it? So if one takes the waldman letter as canon (what I refuse to do, couse that wouldn´t be nice by the valar and I don´t see that Valar as that mean and resentful.) then they are not allowed to life permanetly in Eldamar.

 

I think that just means that at the time, Frodo left Lothlorien Galadriel was able to go nowhere, not Valinor and Eressea also, since the way for her is closed. I don´t know how one could assume that she was, after the pardon, only able to go to Eressea. Dunno

Well I agree that without the Waldman letter in play that's a perfectly good interpretation -- but one might assume Tolkien means the way for her 'to Eressea' is closed, if one has been influenced by the Waldman letter (and given that Eressea is noted in the footnote).
 

So where is Eldarmar? It´s a part of Valinor, isn´t it? So if one takes the waldman letter as canon (what I refuse to do, couse that wouldn´t be nice by the valar and I don´t see that Valar as that mean and resentful.) then they are not allowed to life permanetly in Eldamar. 

 

You are correct that Tolkien can use Valinor to be synonymous with Aman (PE 17), although the Silmarillion index notes Valinor as: 'The Land of the Valar in Aman, beyond the mountains of the Pelori.' 

Anyway, as I say, the second part of the sentence arguably rules out the idea in any case, as it points rather specifically to where the Exiles should dwell permanently.

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