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Thread: Halflings

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Halo-Black began this thread with the following post.

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Hey, my friends (Phill & Wiggy) and I came up with an interesting theory. In the books (and, obviously the films) the hobbits occasionaly get refered to as haflings and as there doesn't seem to be any history as to when the hobbit race started we had to have a sit down and think about it.
When the humans of Middle Earth started out the elves seemed to like them more, so why not feel the same way about dwarves? They can't always of disliked eachother. We kinda figured that a bunch of dwarves and elves got together and did ... it!!!! *insert dramatic music here!*
Hobbits are only a little bit shorter than your average dwarfe and they live under-ground plus they have a long lifespan, like the dwaves and the elves (imortal, pointy eared, bow twangers!). Also, hobbits have pointy ears (elves!) and somethimes look a bit elven (but not often).
So basicly we figure that the hobbits are half Dwarf and half Elf. What do you guys thing, it'd be interesting to hear your opinions on this.



ProgHead777 replied

Eureka!rrActually, I'm not so sure hobbits did have pointy ears. I believe they were identical to Men in every way, only travel sized, 'fitting easily and conveniently in most overhead storage compartments.' Oh wait, that's Mini-Me...

Anyway, the idea of an elf and a dwarf 'doing it' is rather disturbing. I mean, really, picture that! Disturbed Smilie

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Anyway, the idea of an elf and a dwarf 'doing it' is rather disturbing. I mean, really, picture that! Disturbed Smilie


I am with you on that one Prog. Ewwww, *shudders*

Problem with theory: Hobbits are smaller than dwarves. Wouldn't a dwelf (dwarf-elf) be about 5 feet tall?

Tolkien cannon: Elves have always considered dwarves to be "unlovely" calling them the naugrim or "stunted people". Elves and dwarves are probably very biologically different, since Dwarves were given shape by Aule and Elves by Eluvatar. Elves do not appear to have sexual relations as often or as carelessly as humans. There have never been any illegitimate elves in ME, so why would there be illegitimate half-elves? Marriages between elves and humans were considered highly irregular, so I cant imagine their laws allowing a marriage to a Naugrim. I am sure that Tolkien describes the hobbits as a separate race, but they were not included in any early histories because they kept themselves seperate from other races, pursuing peaceful activities, much as they did at the time of theWotR.

Elf and Dwart intermarriages? Tolkien would be horrified...Ha Ha Ha Smilie I can picture him turning over in his grave, and Christopher having some kind of attack.

This is an interesting discussion, however. I hope some others have some comments! Big Smile Smilie
Ieeww thats really sex a dwarf having it off with a elf ... yukkk

But well it isn't Impossible some elves could have been used as spoils off war by some dwarfs full of testosteron by the battle :P

I think the elf in question would kill her self if that would happen but not impossible but i don't know the elfs pregnant of dwarfs would spawn halflings ... they are just to different. ergo I think they would give birth to (as Alyssa said) dwelfs.. a hidious and shunted creature of the night...
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The Periannath are first mentioned in records, with the coming of the Harfoots to Eriador in 1050 TA - ROTK , Appendix B
Prior to their meeting in Fangorn, the Ents had no knowledge of their existence. Tom Bombadil, who if put to it, could probably remember their moving into his neighborhood, but he wouldn't have been curious enough to enquire from whence they came. For any earlier history of the hobbits, such as their origins, one would need to consult Elrond, or better yet Gandalf who made a study of these diminutive creatures. And I doubt if he could tell much more about their earlier history, other than what has probably come down from him, through to Bilbo and Frodo, into The Red Book, and thus to us. I have written below what I gleaned from this source (ROTK, Appendix B).

Regardless of how Ilúvatar called the first hobbits into being, they first lived in the Wilderland between the Anduin and the Greenwood (later to be called Mirkwood when Sauron moved to Dol Guldur). As was said above the Harfoots entered Eriador in 1050 TA. Then about 150 years later the Fallohides entered; the Stoors came over the Redhorn Pa*s and moved to the Angle, or to Dunland. After about another 150 years, the Periannath migrated westward with many settling in Bree. In 1601 TA (Year 1 SR) many Periannath migrated from Bree to the land beyond the Baranduin, which they called The Shire; about thirty years later they were joined by Stoors coming up from Dunland. About 860 years later the Stoor Déagol, whose family hadn't migrated across the Misty Mountains, found the One Ring and was murdered by Sméagol. And 480 years after that Gandalf and Thorin and company show up on Bilbo's doorstep in 2941 TA (1340 SR). A more fuller history of these early movements can be found on the third through sixth pages of Professor Tolkien's Prologue to The Fellowship of the Ring.

I very much doubt if the hobbits are the product of any inter-species breeding, rather that they are a separate species created by Ilúvatar way-back-when. And for reasons of his own, he made three distinct families of them: the Harfoots (smaller and shorter, friendly with Dwarves); the Stoors (broader, friendly with men); and the Fallowhides (bolder, from which their aristocracy formed, and friendly with Elves).
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Anyway, the idea of an elf and a dwarf 'doing it' is rather disturbing. I mean, really, picture that! Disturbed Smilie

Eewwww! I was trying not to think about that part. I'm gonna be traumatized for life now Dead Smilie
I dunno, I quite like the idea....Wink Smilie
I kinda figured you did... Only Plastic... Animated Wink Smilie

No the idea is quite absurd I think. I mean really, can you picture a marriage between a dwarf and an elf? I certainly can't... And what about beards? Hobbits do not have beards, dwarves do. And if there was elvenblood in hobbits, wouldn't they have a love for travelling or such? And since when do hobbits have pointy ears? Cool Smilie I'm letting myself loose again in a *however interesting* rather silly discussion. Animated Wink Smilie No offence whatsoever, you know. Smoke Smilie
Stoorish Hobbits can grow beards Wink Smilie
Somehow I thought you would like that idea, Plastic. Big Laugh Smilie

However: From Tolkien’s letters #319:
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...my hobbits were in any case of wholly dissimilar sort, a diminutive branch of the human race.


As mentioned before, details on how the hobbits came to ME are sketchy at best in the books. But there is a lot of reference to hobbits in The Letters of J R R Tolkien. Apparently he was asked about this very thing many times. In fact Christopher adds in a footnote to Letter #131 that hobbits are a branch of the specifically human race (not Elves or Dwarves)....

Sort of like rustic English pygmies? Maybe more modern agrarian Picts without their blue dye? Cool Smilie
They remind me of the Landed Gentry from the English Shires and the Lincolnshire farmers. Scaled down a little of course.
I dunno, a lot of them remind me of the inbred freaks we have down here in Devon, some of them are really very short...
Pbbbttt!!!!!! Tongue Smilie

Short is beautiful, mate.......

There's nothing 'unlovely' about dwarfs either - Gimli was a sex bomb. Drool.
Very Big Grin Smilie What else can I say.... ? Very Big Grin Smilie
I have to agree, short is indeed beautiful. I've had me mind changed on the subject recently. Wink Smilie Good to see you back Goly.
Short is beautiful? Well there is life after all then... Big Laugh Smilie
Thanks P - so life's looking good eh? Animated Wink Smilie Glad to hear it.
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Anyway, the idea of an elf and a dwarf 'doing it' is rather disturbing. I mean, really, picture that!

Wonder how short a dwarf-hobbit (dwabbit ?) product would be...it'll probably look like a mini-Chewbacca, what with all the hair & all. And what if it was a girl dwabbit - she'd have a beard all the way down to her hairy toes! Hmm, I wonder if male dwarves would find that ultra-sexy.
AAAAAGGGGGGGGHHHHHH! 'kin Ewoks!
Very Big Grin Smilie A dwabbit! ROFLMAOl!!!
okay. where did the hairy feet come from? how come none of the elves, even the oldest ones have mentioned this (as far as my knowledge) and even gandalf doesn't state this. gandalf dedicated his life to the hobbits, wouldn't he say something about the elf/dwarf crossing to any of the hobbits. maybe there wasn't even a history of hobbits. maybe they were just, well, made. i admit i haven't thought this through as well as i could have, but i can already spot holes in your theory. Animated Wink Smilie
I am inclined to agree with you, alakdhol.

Pleased to meet you by the way. Big Smile Smilie
Hybrid Dwarf-Hobbit, disgusting thought. No wonder Tolkien didn't think of it. Very Evil Smilie
The Hybrid Dwarf-Hobbit was one of Melkor's abominations that just didn't pan out for him, so ho let it die off. Very Big Grin Smilie

(Note: "Didn't pan-out" is the opposite from "hit pay dirt" and "strike it rich", which are all gold mining terms (idoms) from the American West.)
Ha! Speciests, all of you! Tongue Smilie

What's wrong with a dwabbit? Short, grumpy & hairy doesn't necessarily mean ugly you know!


But I must admit that Ewoks are disgusting. Argh!
I love the idea of an elf and a dwarf getting together. As a matter of fact my family and I had a discussion about this very thing. It was my idea, and I was shot down at home too. lol.

I often wondered about the word halfling. half of what? My thoughts were elf and dwarf too. I love the idea.

Matthew plays D&D on the weekends sometimes and he came up with an interesting character.

An orc/human baby raised by elves.

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I often wondered about the word halfling. half of what?
I always figured it referred to their height: half a man's height. It could also be half an Elf''s height, but I guess it really doesn't matter which. Smile Smilie
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An orc/human baby raised by elves.


Very Evil Smilie
Tigiel, I was wondering if anyone would catch that. lol. It is a pretty interesting character. Big Laugh Smilie

[Edited on 23/8/2002 by MelliotSandybanks]
Allyssa has written a short story about an Orc foundling being taken home by a pair of Elves. You can read it in the Writers Guild under The Demons Within or The Chat Room Story. We all thought it had possibilities for a novel, or a series even. Cool Smilie

And I see now she is has added some more towards this expansion.

[Edited on 23/8/2002 by Grondmaster]
Allyssa has written a short story about an Orc foundling being taken home by a pair of Elves. You can read it in the Writers Guild under The Demons Within or The Chat Room Story. We all thought it had possibilities for a novel, or a series even. Cool Smilie
And a good story it is! I feel somehow honoured that I was there in the chatroom when Allyssa became inspired and started writing furiously. Cool Smilie
I cannot wait for the next installment. Check out the writer's guild everyone.
kewl, that should be interresting. i will check it out later. and have matthew read it
i am sure he will love it
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We all thought it had possibilities for a novel, or a series even.


Sure it has! Deal Smilie
Must read it then. When I ever find the time... Cool Smilie