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Thread: Smeagol - a What If thread

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What if Smeagol had NOT ended up killing Deagol in order to get the ring? Would we have a very different LoTR story, or would Deagol have simply ended up just like Gollum? Or would the grandmother have ended up with the ring? Hm...

There are many instances where fate plays a huge part, almost as another character in all of Tolkien's fabulous stories.  It was fate, (created by Eru) who had the fish pull poor Deagol into the Anduin, where he saw the flash of light reflected from the Ring.  I believe that if Smeagol had not forcibly taken the ring from Deagol then the entire way the Ring was eventually destroyed would have played out differently, however with a similar end.  Gandalf describes fate all the way through the LOTR and states its importance in life and destiny. An example of this is his discussion with Frodo regarding Smeagol, about handing out death and who has the right to.  There is a section in the books and films where Gandalf rides Thorondor and two of his compatriots to Mount Doom to find Sam and Frodo after the ring is destroyed.  Why three Eagles to find two Hobbits?  Fate was involved and knew that Gollum would be there at the end of all things.  It it wasn't for Gollum the ring would not have been destroyed and eventually the Ring would have made its way back to Sauron.  Was it fate?   

Yes, according to Gandalf there are greater forces or the Creator in other words who knows everything and the heart of each creature and although he does not pre ordain anyone to act in a certain way, he knows the heart of each and so brings things together to work out his purpose for his creation. And so Bilbo was meant to find the one ring and frodo was meant to take it to Mordor and Smeagol was meant then to find the ring first. So with that in mind there could be no what ifs.

True True Lee Lee.

And as Gandalf says "And thats an encouraging thought isnt it!

I have thought of this riddle before too. The fate of Gollum might have been the fate of me or another if the conditions called for it. Did Gollum even have a say in this matter with the ring? Was there even free will for Gollum in the matter?

There really was free will for Smeagol that was the character and nature of Illuvatar to allow it for a season at least and then bring the music to a completion and close.One gets a glimpse of this when the music in that far off magical place was being made. As soon as discord came and made a strident sound,He merely surrounded it or something and caused it to be a part of the bigger picture. And the words of Gandalf to Frodo show that mercy extended to Smeagol, to Gollum had almost caused him to change his direction , that is until the enmity between the faithful Samwise and Gollum caused him or rather decided him to push away goodness in favour of deeper evil. I am quite certain had he changed the ending would have still been the same but the characters and circumstances would have been different. Illuvatar having the seeming ability to read the hearts of his creations and know what direction that would take , also knew no matter what changes given Gollum to turn around, the creature would always choose in favour of the getting of the ring of power and using it for evil to benefit himself.

Yes Lee Lee.  One of my favorite parts of the Sil is where I think both Illuvatar and Manwe state that, and I'm paraphrasing, Even though the hurts and evils born of Melkor are truely evil, they will be good to have been, as because of them beauty un looked for will be born into Middle Earth!  For someone who lived through two hideous World Wars, this is truly a amazing statement regarding fate.  Makes me love Tolkien even more.

Dear dear Brego, your words brought tears to my eyes, So much you have often reminded me of our dear professor, and suffering through the hideous earth shattering wars, of course you allowed your pain to allow you to see things through the same eyes as Tolkien. And that is why I note that so many of your posts would have been practically word for word the same as his were he to contribute here. I respect you greatly.

Gee thanks Lee Lee.  I truly love Tolkien, he has altered my world view on many parts of life especially in regards to respect and culture and Man kinds seeming inability to get along.  I feel blessed to have read almost all of his great works and seem to constantly re read a lot of them.

You are such a kind hearted soul.  All of your posts drip with the beauty of the first born.  Thanks again for your comments.

If he hadn't killed deagol and deagol was the one that kit the ring I would have been like, " that's not a very good story!" I think deagol is cute, but dang....I don't think he deserves to be a ring bearer, not for 500 years. I enjoyed the lotr. Gollum smeagol was one of the most important and greatest characters of all freaking time!