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Thread: Who is the most valiant man?

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In the Third Age I would say that Aragorn was the most valient, dedicating his whole life to fighting evil, when he lived in a time when he could have perhaps left the struggle in the hands of someone else.

Prior to the Third Age, I would say many great deeds were committed during the dark days of the First Age. Although much went wrong for him, due mainly to Morgoth's curse, I believe that Turin was the most valient. Either fighting with elven allies in Doriath and Nargothrond, or as a bandit from Amon Rudh, he dedicated his life to fighting Morgoth. He led a disasterous life because of various curses, but never gave up in his quest against impossible odds. And he slew Glaurung, the greatest dragon.

In fact, forget Aragorn. Turin wins hands down (with perhaps Beren a close second)
For me, Turin!!!
And I think that JRRT thought the same, because in the History of ME Vol. 5 you may find a prophecy of Mandos telling, among others, that in the final Last Battle of Good nad Evil Morgoth will be slain by Turin. So even after his death he was supposed to remain a valiant avenger.
Just close to him, I'd name Hurin his father.
Beren was valiant by need (during the period when he was an outlaw) but he was essentially a peace-loving man. His life with Luthien was very peaceful and quiet almost to the end, when he had to go to war once more to avenge Thingol killed by Dwarves. Durng the same period when Turin was fighting desperately with the forces of evil in every possible way, Beren just lived quietly with Luthien on his enchanted isle, among the Elves...
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And I think that JRRT thought the same, because in the History of ME Vol. 5 you may find a prophecy of Mandos telling, among others, that in the final Last Battle of Good nad Evil Morgoth will be slain by Turin. So even after his death he was supposed to remain a valiant avenger.
I must get those books if they contain such gems as that one. It'll just be a case of finding time to read them.

And the more I think about it, the higher in my esteem Turin rates. Because his life was masked by so much bad luck brought on by Morgth's and Glaurung's curses, many of his great deeds became clouded in other tragic tales, darkening his history. Poor Turin. He tried so hard but was up against a beating for nothing.

Can you imagine what a force he and his cousin Tuor would have made if they had fought side by side.
Also when we compare the motivation underlying the actions of Turin and Beren, Turin seems to win. During all his life Turin was fighting to keep foces of evil at bay, doing his best to overcome his ill luck. Beren & Luthien did a very daring thing when they took Silmaril from the Iron Crown of Morgoth, but this was done for quite selfish reason: Beren desired to wed Luthien with the consent of her father. And Luthien was wholly willing to live with Beren without the consent of Thingol! If Beren would have been sensible enough, he should accept that, part with her far away from Doriath and focus his efforts rather on fighting Orcs/helping Men of the Three Kindreds. He would not have lost his right hand, and Finrod Felagund and his faithful companions would not have been killed by Sauron's werewolf...
Orc With Thumbs Up Smilie I'm backing Túrin because he was butting his head against a wall that he couldn't break down, but even knowing this he still kept picking himself up and trying again.
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Orc With Thumbs Up Smilie I'm backing Túrin because he was butting his head against a wall that he couldn't break down, but even knowing this he still kept picking himself up and trying again.

Is that valiant? Or just not knowing when you're beat? Wink Smilie
If Turin would "know that he is beaten" after one of his defeats, he would not go and kill Glaurung. And Glaurung would certainly kill many Elves and Men and do much mischief. Sometimes people (and animals) assume that they are beaten too soon - this is known as "learned helplessness"...
I think that depends on what you mean by valiant. In terms of which man was bravest, I would say Beren because even if he had a selfish reason, he was still very brave. Aside from that I would say Aragorn, Boromir, or Faramir.
Let us not forget Eorl the Young as well!
Nor Tar Aldarion, Earendil, Theoden, Helm, Bard,plus last king of Gondor (the one that went up against the witch king, one on one in his own fortress) all very valiant!!! but I think Turin must go number 1. Beren very close second, I mean he did go into Morgoths realm and steal a silmaril from his crown after all!
I admire very much Hurin Thalion and the sad ending of his story grieves me very much. It was sufficiently bad, to be a captive of Morgoth during so many years, and to watch all sufferings of his wife and children. But then he was released and met with distrust of both Turgon and his own people... and finally he felt that his life is bereft of all further purpose and cast himself into the sea. I would like so much to modify that - to make him wander in the wild as a wary old man helping all escaped thralls. He could then die among those brave men who would respect him and love him for the help and guidance he still was able to give them...

[Edited on 4/11/2002 by Eryan]
Valiant means: very brave or bravely determined, esp. when things are difficult or the situation gives no cause for hope

Faramir had no reason to be part of the quest - as Aragorn did (he had Arwen to win, after all) and NO reward for Faramir win or lose... I have to say Faramir was the most valiant - because it never even occurred to him to challenge Aragorn though there was no reward in supporting him either (even might be some backlash for supporting ARagorn). When the ring came into his hand, he did what was right, even though he knew it would make him unpopular and even loathed by his own father.
I agree that Faramir was very courageous, but I would not name him the most valiant man of ME. For me, a valiant man is always ready for offensive fighting, like Turin. And Faramir fought bravely, but only when open strife was inevitable.
But you say it like he was avoiding fighting.. he was a diplomat - like Gandalf - he used his diplomacy skills until hi s fighting / leadership skills were needed. It's what we expect from our leaders today - isn't it? I think it shows valiance and integrity.

[Edited on 11/6/2002 by swampfaye]
I am not criticizing Faramir - my favourite character of the whole LOTR. And I am not telling that a "valiant" person is better than a diplomat. Turin was valiant, but his policy was disastrous!
I think that Aragorn, Eomer, Boromir, and Faramir would have to be my pick for the most valiant.
Also Beren.
Either Beren or Tuor. Or possibly Túrin.
Without a doubt I say Túrin Mormegil Turambar

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Can you imagine what a force he and his cousin Tuor would have made if they had fought side by side.


I see what you mean Val! WOW! That is something I would like to watch.....although they did meet swiftly when Túrin was chasing after Finduilas, Orodreths daughter......if he would´ve stopped.....wow....that would propaply be the downfall of Morgoth!Big Smile Smilie
I would say Hurin

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see title of thread. No Half-Elven, please. I'd say Elendil or Tuor or maybe Aragorn.
But didn't Tuor get classed among the elves to balance out Luthien?
My pick for the 3rd age is Aragorn hands down! No mortal was more valiant than he during the time in and around the WOTR!

Before that, I'm inclined to agree with most everyone else. I think Turin, Tuor, and Beren probably take the cake. However, there are definitely some other extremely worthy notables out there.

When it comes down to most valiant (by definition of the word) of all mortals, it's between Aragorn and Turin for me, and I would have to choose Aragorn because I like him so much better than Turin.
Elf Smilie

In my opinion, Hurin is the most valiant. I mean, he slaughtered 70 trolls. Tuor was great guy too of course, he did a lot of great things during the battle of Gondolin; if i'm not mistaken, he slaughtered some Balrogs but i'm not sure bout this.

In my opinion, Aragorn is a big wimp compared to this guys. He hunted some Orc of course and killed some other bad guys too durin the battle of Pelennor fields, but compared to his illustrious forefathers, he's a toddler. Newayz, he was ok but the most valiant?? never
Hmm....I hear you V......Húrin is propably the most valiant man ever lived......and Aragorn is a toddler compared to those guys as you put it.....He never faced the ancient evil! AND 70 trolls?!?! Damn! Húrin most valiant.....Túrin his son the second.....of course it most be passed down in legacy! Big Laugh Smilie
So basically us three loudest whinger's are in agrement about it being Hurin. The majority of the Film (lack of) critics are picking the wimp Aragorn.
Lets face it if you're not in the Silmarillion, your hardly worthy of the word valiant! Wink Smilie
Oh well, it ain't Aragorn's fault : he couldn't face the ancient evil anymore, say Balrogs and Trolls, because Hurin destroyed them all...

at least we can give Aragorn one credit : he brilliantly ran away from a Balrog in Khazad-Dûm. Real bravery!
You forgot the most important part Virumor, wasn't it a pretty balrog in the film and Aragorn is played by a good looking man in the film, isn't Legolas played by a pretty actor, phwoar! Cool Smilie
Yes, in the movies all protagonists are more concerned bout their looks than bout the fate of Middle-Earth. Even Frodo would trade the Ring immediately for a neat Galadhrim ointment.
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Lets face it if you're not in the Silmarillion, your hardly worthy of the word valiant!


Heh that's your opinion Ross, and that's fine, for the most part I agree with you since The Sil is my favorite book, but that's a blanket generalization statement that isn't true, not to mention the fact that Aragorn is mentioned in The Sil in the chapter Of The Rings Of Power And The Third Age. Also please don’t have the audacity to try and tell me that Theoden’s, Eomer’s, and Eowyn’s deeds at the battle of the Pelennor aren’t worthy of the word valiant.

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at least we can give Aragorn one credit : he brilliantly ran away from a Balrog in Khazad-Dûm. Real bravery!


Let’s not forget here Virumor that was not Aragorn’s choice. That decision was made by Gandalf, and was his order to Aragorn. If it was up to Aragorn he would have stayed and fought alongside Gandalf, but Gandalf knew that in order to give the quest any chance at success from that point on, he was going to have to make that sacrifice. In fact here's a quote from page 371 of FOTR;

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'He cannot stand alone!' cried Aragorn suddenly and ran back along the bridge. 'Elendil!' he shouted. "I am with you, Gandalf!'


Those are hardly the words of a man running away!

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In my opinion, Aragorn is a big wimp compared to this guys. He hunted some Orc of course and killed some other bad guys too durin the battle of Pelennor fields, but compared to his illustrious forefathers, he's a toddler. Newayz, he was ok but the most valiant?? never


Okay, I guess you’re right Aragorn is a wimp. In retrospect I suppose dedicating your whole life to fighting evil is a pretty wimpy thing to do, and hardly valiant. I guess watching over Frodo and the Shire, and protecting them from harm while Gandalf was away discovering the truth about the One Ring wasn’t very valiant. I guess leading the Hobbits safely from Bree to Rivendell, and single handedly fending off 5 Nazgul at Weathertop was pretty wimpy. I guess leading a hopelessly outnumbered group of men against all odds to victory at Helm’s Deep wasn’t very valiant at all. I’m sure that striving with Sauron one on one in the palantir, having the strength to overcome him, and in the process striking fear and doubt into Sauron’s heart wasn’t very valiant either.

Yup it took a real wimp to have enough courage and valor to face the Paths of the Dead (probably something no other mortal could have endured). Arriving in the nick of time to save everybody’s a$$es at the Pelennor, and fighting side by side with Eomer avenging all loss and sorrow certainly wasn’t very courageous. Leading the Captains of the West (hopelessly outnumbered again) to the Black Gate to challenge the might of Mordor, and the very might of Sauron himself in a situation where they (and he) were almost certain to die definitely wasn’t very valiant. Give me a break! For the love of Eru, Aragorn had a whole book named after him (ROTK dudes); in comparison Hurin doesn’t even have a chapter named after him! I think that gives proper indication into which character JRRT deemed more important. When anyone of you can come up with a factual list of valiant accomplishments for Hurin as long as Aragorn’s then come and talk to me!
Na-na-na-na-na Smilie
Read in the Sil bout Hurin and hi son Turin. That should give you enough material. And i agree with you bout Aragorn : he fought evil allright, but the evil he fought is nothin compared to the evil Hurin and Co faced. In First Age, they had to face with Morgoth instead of his idiotic minion Sauron, and with Morgoth's household of Balrogs, Dragons and hordes of Orcs, much more than in the third age.

Aragorn performed behind the scenes and stayed modest all the time; if Hurin or Turin took Aragorn's place, those guys would just have walked straight up to Barad-Dûr, enter the darn castle to Sauron's Throne, and give the Dark lad a big stamp in the groin. They weren't only valiant, but they had style too. Hurin didn't even bow before Morgoth, faced with those grumpy man's eyes. Newayz, i rest my case now.
Btw, i forgot to add : i didn't say Aragorn was a wimp

I said Aragorn was a wimp 'compared to his forefathers' ; his forefathers faced a higher and heavier dose of evil than their modest grand-grand-grand-etc etc -son.

I rest my case again.
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if Hurin or Turin took Aragorn's place, those guys would just have walked straight up to Barad-Dûr, enter the darn castle to Sauron's Throne, and give the Dark lad a big stamp in the groin.
I still stand by my original choice that Turin was the most valient man. Everything had more power in the First Age than it did in the Third. However, should Hurin follow the course you have suggested above, no doubt he would have been Sauron's guest on a mountainside seat just as he had been Melkor's. For all of their bravery and valour, neither Hurin or Turin achieved anything. They both failed miserably, all be it in style.

Okay, I agree, Aragorn did not have their strength. The blood of the Edain had been diluted a lot by his day. The original magic that had been used in the creation of Ea was fading. Unlike his forefathers, however, Aragorn succeeded. He did not slay 70 trolls like Hurin, or a dragon like Turin, but he did manage to lead the Free Peoples to victory over Sauron. He came out on top.

What he lacked in sheer power (and let us not forget here that Tolkien described Aragorn as the most hardy Man of the Third Age), he made up for in wit and intellegence. He dedicated his life to fighting evil, but he did not throw his life away in a bout of despair or pride. More importantly, he did not reveal the location of Rivendell to Sauron as Hurin had done with Gondolin, nor slay his best friend, marry his sister and leave his loved ones to their fate as Turin had done.

To me, Aragorn is more comparable to his forebearer, Beren, in this respect. He was not the heroic fighter like Hurin or Turin, but he was wise and used that wisdom to succeed.

This thread should not be used to pull down other people's heroes, but to celebrate the virtues of each and every one of them that drew a sword against the forces of Darkness. We all have our personal favourites, but that is not an excuse to critisize the choices of others. In their own way, they are all valient. Aragorn, Beren and Tuor succeeded. Hurin and Turin failed, all be it because of Melkor's curse. I'd be happy to have any of them on my side in battle.

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Read in the Sil bout Hurin and hi son Turin. That should give you enough material. And i agree with you bout Aragorn : he fought evil allright, but the evil he fought is nothin compared to the evil Hurin and Co faced. In First Age, they had to face with Morgoth instead of his idiotic minion Sauron, and with Morgoth's household of Balrogs, Dragons and hordes of Orcs, much more than in the third age.

Aragorn performed behind the scenes and stayed modest all the time; if Hurin or Turin took Aragorn's place, those guys would just have walked straight up to Barad-Dûr, enter the darn castle to Sauron's Throne, and give the Dark lad a big stamp in the groin. They weren't only valiant, but they had style too. Hurin didn't even bow before Morgoth, faced with those grumpy man's eyes. Newayz, i rest my case now.
We all know that the power and prowess of men had lessened with the passage of time: Elrond kept harping about it. Let us say though, that Aragorn was the most valiant of his age, while they were of theirs.

At the end of Hurin and Turin's day, the horrendous evil that they faced, still remained, while that Aragorn faced, yes to be sure a lesser evil, was destroyed within his lifetime, even if he had to resort to using his brain in accepting the help of weak halflings at the advice of a wizard, rather than just his brawn.

And yes, they undoubtedly would have bested Aragorn in a one-on-one clash of arms; however, none of them, using the forces Aragorn had available, could have made it to Barad-Dûr alive. Before they could have reached Sauron to topple him down, they would have had to wade through his minions and finaly they would have been buried under great mounds of their dead bodies. None of these heros were that good, no matter the braggadocio of their fans. Elf With a Big Grin Smilie Though all three of you have made good arguments for your cases. Thumbs Up Smilie
______________________________________________________
Elf With a Big Grin Smilie I see while I was agonizing over my wording and sentence structure, Val beat me to it again, which makes me look like a copy cat; however, it really was parallel thinking.

[Edited on 5/9/2003 by Grondmaster]
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This thread should not be used to pull down other people's heroes, but to celebrate the virtues of each and every one of them that drew a sword against the forces of Darkness. We all have our personal favourites, but that is not an excuse to critisize the choices of others.


For my part, I absolutely agree, and let the record show that I did not criticize anyone else’s choice in my initial post (or for the matter in my second post in this thread either). It seems like it’s always a certain few people that are always tearing down, criticizing, and bashing on what everyone else is saying around here, no matter what the topic.

As I already stated, for me it came down to Turin and Aragorn, and I choose Aragorn because I personally like him better. I didn’t criticize anyone else’s choice; I just gave my personal opinion. Then a couple of individuals saw it fit to attack my personal choice, and to start bashing on Aragorn. Ridiculous statements like Aragorn’s a wimp, or Aragorn ran away like a coward on the bridge, or if you’re not mentioned in The Sil than you’re not worthy of the word valiant are not going to go unchallenged by me (in a friendly, non personal way). I just felt it was necessary to defend Aragorn’s character, and to set the record straight. Also in my initial post, I mentioned several other characters that were worthy of most valiant consideration, and mentioned that there were other very worthy notables as well (specifically thinking of Hurin, Elendil, and a few others here). I have no problem with Hurin. He is one of my favorite characters, and was certainly a very valiant warrior.

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Okay, I agree, Aragorn did not have their strength. The blood of the Edain had been diluted a lot by his day. The original magic that had been used in the creation of Ea was fading.


With this in mind, doesn’t it stand to reason then that because of this Aragorn’s deeds were made all the more valiant?

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We all know that the power and prowess of men had lessened with the passage of time: Elrond kept harping about it. Let us say though, that Aragorn was the most valiant of his age, while they were of theirs.


That’s a fair and accurate statement Grondy, and I agree. Again though I personally choose Aragorn as most valiant because I feel like (and the books support) that he accomplished more.

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Read in the Sil bout Hurin and hi son Turin. That should give you enough material.


Heh I know what's in there virumor, I ain’t doing your homework for you. The point was for you, or anyone else to show me a list of Hurin's valiant deeds (which you did not do), and to prove that he achieved a greater number of valiant deeds than Aragorn. It’s simple; the greater number of valiant deeds accomplished in ones lifetime equals the most worthy of being named most valiant. Hurin was a very valiant man, and his deeds were impressive, but I still contend that Aragorn did more.

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Aragorn performed behind the scenes


It is true that Aragorn waited until his time had come, but his deeds during the time of the WOTR were hardly behind the scenes. Look, all of the characters that have been mentioned in this thread for most valiant are certainly worthy, but until I see a greater list of valiant accomplishments than Aragorn’s (many of which I haven’t even mentioned) I stand by my choice. I do respect the personal choices of everyone else though, and as Val said, I'd be happy to have any of them on my side in battle too!
Elf Smilie










OK now. It seems like this thread changed into a Hurin vs Aragorn thread, which wasn't my intention to do. It's true i understated Aragorn's feats, and i apologize for this. It could be that Aragorn achieved more (?) than Hurin : he became King of Gondor, he married an Elf (is this an accomplishment?), he did some brave acts at the battle of Helm's Deep, he was very brave to have battled Sauron by lookin in the Palantir. And oh yeah, he was at the battle of Pelennor and Morannon too. Those were valiant deeds.

Well now, you've asked me to give you a list of Hurin's valiant deeds - you are claiming that Aragorn's number of valiant deeds is greater than Hurin's number. Well who cares?? This ain't mathematics - it could be that the number of Hurin's valiant deeds is less, i don't look at the number, i look at the greatness of those deeds. Only by defying Morgoth himself and by his actions at the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, he surpassed Aragorn. Quality, not quantity.

Aragorn fough at the battle of Pelennor fields and butchered some Orcs, Haradrim, Variags, Russians, etc and he had to deal with Sauron.

Hurin fought at the Nirnaeth Arnoediad - and compared with this battle, the battle of the Pelennor fields was only a fistfight in the local pub. Not only Hurin dealt with balrogs, dragons, trolls, etc but he also had to deal with Morgoth himself (ex Mister Valar), not with a would-be Dark Lord who orchestrated his own destruction (without knowing, of course haha).

When Morgoth captured him, Hurin didn't bow for him and made fun of him, which is very impressive imho. Let's not forget that Aragorn indeed faced Sauron too in the palantir, and Aragorn indeed defeated Sauron, but Aragorn only won by a very very narrow margin. (like i'd say he went thru the eye of a needle). Aragorn was completely drained - his Ranger buddies had to carry him outside Helm's Deep.

Of course, Hurin was captured and this wasn't very valiant - or was it ? It was, coz by Hurin's troll-entertainment he gave his Elven mates the opportunity to flee, and he didn't want to flee himself, he'd rather die in battle than be gone.

But i agree with you that Aragorn was far more wise than Hurin. After all, it was Aragorn's fate to be a King so he couldn't concentrate on the action alone Wink Smilie

To me, Aragorn isn't the most valiant man in the history of Arda, but the most valiant man in LoTR. (or was it Boromir ?).

Hey i was only joking about the only people in the Sil being heroes. If this was the case would I have read the LOTR so many times. Aragorn was hard and he had advantages that the characters from the Sil didn't, like his longevity. All of the origonal Edain didn't. He also was a captain in Gondor long before any of the main story in the LOTR (see appendices). He's a agood hero and I admit there wasn't a chance of him doing these heroic deeds as most of the critters from the sil had already been destroyed!
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Well now, you've asked me to give you a list of Hurin's valiant deeds - you are claiming that Aragorn's number of valiant deeds is greater than Hurin's number. Well who cares?? This ain't mathematics - it could be that the number of Hurin's valiant deeds is less, i don't look at the number, i look at the greatness of those deeds. Only by defying Morgoth himself and by his actions at the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, he surpassed Aragorn. Quality, not quantity.


I totally agree with you Virumor......it is quality not quantity......those deeds surpassed(in my book) Aragorns.....
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For all of their bravery and valour, neither Hurin or Turin achieved anything. They both failed miserably, all be it in style.

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More importantly, he did not reveal the location of Rivendell to Sauron as Hurin had done with Gondolin

It's true that finally Hurin revealed (inadvertently!!) the location of Gondolin to Morgoth. And it may seem that in such a way he brought to naught all merits of his long heroic defiance. But, was it indeed the case? We must remember that only thanks to Hurin's resistance Tuor was able to reach maturity, to find Gondolin, to marry Idril, and to become the father of Earendil. And finally it was thanks to Earendil that Middle Earth was delivered from evil by divine intervention. So I cannot agree that Hurin "failed miserably'! Smile Smilie
Turin also did not entirely fail. He killed Glaurung and in such a way gained everlasting gratitude of Men and Elves!
Hurin didn't fail. It's true he let Morgoth know in what area Gondolin was, and he caused the destruction of Doriath by giving the Nauglamir to Elwë. But he did this only because of Morgoth's curse. He indeed saw everything he built, go down like Morgoth said so you can't blaim Hurin for being a bit grumpy after his release.

Turin is the biggest anti-hero in the history of Arda, just because of Glaurung's curse. Everything the poor lad did, turned against him. But at the very end, he will slay Morgoth so the guy won't fail then.
I would only like to add, if somebody failed in the matter of Gondolin, it was Turgon who was afraid to re-admit Hurin after he lost all for his sake. He hesitated just a bit too long. And thus he himself drew dark doom on his city.
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I would only like to add, if somebody failed in the matter of Gondolin, it was Turgon who was afraid to re-admit Hurin after he lost all for his sake. He hesitated just a bit too long. And thus he himself drew dark doom on his city.
Re-admitting Hurin would not have been an issue if Turgon had heeded the warning of Ulmo.

My vote for the most valiant goes to Hurin. Not only was he a skilled fighter, he also defied Morgoth. That gets big bonus points in my grading scale.
Exactly Lasgalen....I mean when comparing Aragorn with Húrin(which is actually unfair but I shall do it anyways) you see that Húrin is the winner no doubt.....Húrin could defy and mock Morgoth without being dominated, IN FRONT OF MORGOTH IN PERSON.....while Aragorn had trouble fighting Sauron from distance....although they were using the palantír and that might make them "closer".....but you guys see my point right?

Not that Aragorn wasn´t valiant but he never came close to Húrin in my book Smoke Smilie
Yes, Hurin defied Morgoth in hois presence, but was not victorious in terms of getting better of Morgoth, of regaining control over the course of events. He was a captive, bound and helpless. The duel of Aragorn with Sauron was quite different: Aragorn actually won it and got control over the Palantir. I am sure that if Aragorn were made a captive of Sauron, he would resist him like Hurin did.
It is difficult to compare the two. Hurin faced a Vala (the mightiest of the Valar) whereas Aragorn faced a mere Maia. Whether Aragorn could have defied Melkor to his face or not is hard to say.
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Yes, Hurin defied Morgoth in hois presence, but was not victorious in terms of getting better of Morgoth, of regaining control over the course of events. He was a captive, bound and helpless. The duel of Aragorn with Sauron was quite different: Aragorn actually won it and got control over the Palantir. I am sure that if Aragorn were made a captive of Sauron, he would resist him like Hurin did.


I’m not going to get into the whole Aragorn versus Hurin debate again, and it was never my intention to do so in the first place, to each his or her own. Every character that has been mentioned in this thread is extremely worthy, but you took the words right out of my mouth Eryan.
Elf Winking Smilie
Well you are right Lasgalen.....I´ll say like this then......Húrin Thalion is the most valiant man ever!

I think Turin was the most valiant man ever. I mean, just count his great deeds (marrying relatives and killing best friends not included!) and you'll understand why! but I wouldn't get too carried away, cause there were others almost as brave as him: Beren, Tuor, Huor, Hurin and so on ...

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Evil may yet be good to have been ... and yet remain evil!

[Edited on 21/9/2003 by bugyfeanor]
Id say eaither Aragorn or Elendil. Both two great men that fought agansit sauron
It even says in the Silm that Hurin was the most valiant man to have ever lived.

[Edited on 2/10/2003 by Ross]
Elendil was not only valiant, but also a man of great sensibility which makes him very dear to me. History of ME reveals us some important hints about his personality. The description of his nostalgic feelings while he still lived in his beautiful house on Numenor iis so poignant! And after the downfall of Numenor he suffering from homesickness so much that he built high watchtowers to look at the sea where the land he has loved was buried forever under the waves... It always seemed to me that Tolkien to some degree identified himself with Elendil as well, not only with Beren...
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It even says in the Silm that Hurin was the most valiant man to have ever lived.

Yes, that's true, but as I recently found out, Turin's the one who's gonna give Melkor his death blow. That's got to count for something, right?

Namarie
Well...not really....he only gets to finish off the Morgoth Bauglir because of the pain and misery he has caused to the house of Hador and especially the house of Húrin......Húrin Thalion is still as Ross said the most valiant man ever.....and it said so in the Sil. tooTongue Smilie

And besides....Túrin will not fight Morgoth alone....he will have both Tulkas and Eönwë (if I´m not mistaken) on his right and left side....but I don´t think he will need their help so much....that would really shorten the fightTongue Smilie
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