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LOL! heehee! i think that Elijah Wood did a great job playing Frodo. although it must've been a pain in the arse trying to get him to look like he was 4'
Which reminds me, i don't know if anyone would be interested, but i sat around after the movie ended to watch the credits and under 'costumes' (or some such) i saw Richard Tyler! i reckon he was the one who did the gals. like galadriel and arwen.

Legolas_no_Miko: Welcome to the forum. Smile Smilie

Swampfaye: Pay no attention to those people behind the curtain; the ones with the rope and balcony; their bite is worse than their bark. We don't have any Tolkien Thought Police hereabouts, so feel free to sound-off. As long as you present a rational argument (or irrational for that matter) and stick around to defend it, you can say almost anything you like pro or con about Tolkien.

Now if one were to simply say "Tolkien was a nailbiter" with no rational, they might expect some sarcastism in the following posts. Be that as it may, that's what makes this place interesting. Big Smile Smilie
[Edited on 7/1/2002 by Grondmaster]
Hi Swampfaye!
Especially in RotK when they journey through Mordor I had stomg compassions with Frodo. I think his suffering was made quite clear there. But also in the beginning after the attack on Weathertop I felt so.
However, it is just reasonable that in the movie they put more focus on the main character. That's maybe why Frodo got more of your attention than when reading the books.
I'm totally with you Swampfayre, never gave a toss about Frodo in the books, but Elijah Wood did a great job on him.
Oh, hi and welcome to the forum as well.
*stupid

It ain't easy being green indeed, and I can know! Big Smile Smilie Fantastic signature! Big Smile Smilie
Are you green then Tommy? You should go see a doctor!
Yeah frodo did a great job on elijah wood! he looks sweet and innocent
Elijah Wood was great as Frodo...though he whimpered a bit more than I had imagined Frodo doing...
But his scared s**tless facial expression really fit the part. I almost felt I liked it. If only he had looked like he was 50, or 33 even--I forgot the ring did that to its bearers--still, he only looked to be seventeen, at the most.
I know the Tolkien Police will hang me for this, but I like Frodo a little younger and nieve like his companions. I didn't like him in the book, he seemed to worn out and ... BLAH. He wasn't nearly as interesting as Bilbo was in the Hobbit (which disapointed me greatly). I like Sam as a friend more than a "servant". I can imagine a hobbit at 33 looks like Elijah Wood (this is middle earth...)does at 19. It also makes those around him a little more accepting of his reluctance. You can sympathise with a teenager who doesn't understand why he must bear such a burden, but a middle aged man should be expected to not only bear the burden, but understand why it is necessary. (of course, that is only my opinion and since I am a woman it must be right Wink Smilie ) .
We've been told! I've got some rope, now has anyone got a tall tree around here.... Wink Smilie
I live on the 8th floor and i have a balcony Smile Smilie
I think Tolkiens main problem with the "underdevelopment of Frodo, is all the other characters around him are so much more interesting than he is! Pippin and Merry always have something more witty to say than Frodo (who is supposed to be older and therefore wiser). In the movie at least he looks good and emotes well. I think, disliking the book Frodo as much as I do, that had they made him 55 in the movie we'd all be saying "what a wimp" because we all exppect more of someone older...
thank you. this place reminds me of the AnimeNation forums. ^_^
Loved Elija Wood as Frodo too!

He also gave me a better liking for Frodo than in the book - soooo sweet and cute!!! Wanted to hug and kiss him, and tell him everything is okay. Serious motherly instincts towards him.
Love your new sig Alyssa! Very honest of you. And hello Legolas_no_Miko. Actually, Alyssa, your motherly instincts are a trifle odd I think (though I don't know why).
Oh **** it, Tolkien was a Nailbiter cos I say so.
i can relate to Allyssa and the whole 'major motherly instincts' thing. Frodo was just so sweet! then again, all the Hobbits were...but Frodo was cutest. ^_^
Hey, Mommy Legolas_no_Miko: Can you please tell this old curmudgeon who has little internet experiance what the
Quote:
^_^
stands for? I also had to ask about the 'laughing-out-loud' abbreviation last spring, when I first went on line. Smile Smilie

Also to all the new comers: When you see
Quote:
*stupid
in our posts it called up a smilie holding sign that pointed up and said "I'm with stupid!" It doesn't necessarily mean someone or something is considered stupid. Smile Smilie Just wanted to get that off my chest before it caused a mis-understanding. Big Smile Smilie
*stupid Except in this case Wink Smilie Big Smile Smilie
you cried?
hm, i had considered that option also but decided better of it cos it seemed like a sissy thing to do. only to cry my eyeballs out a week later when reading Jane Eyre.
Is it just me or are there obvious parallels between Frodo and Luke Skywalker?
ok, maybe not that obvious but there's a lot that's similar... they both start their journeys close to home, then to strange new lands and back home again.. and both spiritually elevated but virtually alone at the end of the journey.


Never seen Luke Skywalker, so I won't reply to that. Smile Smilie
Frodo looked ok. But was he really 50 in the movie? (I mean, didn't they make him leave the same night of the party, that was my impression, but then I could be wrong). He didn't look 50 surely, and he had never worn the ring. ??? Oh well. Wood looked a bit too young for Frodo, but for all the rest: marvellous performance. Couldn't have done it better. Big Smile Smilie
^_^ is an anime-style happy face. i use it alot, although sometimes i shorten it a bit to just ^^

i feel your pain, i felt so stupid when i first asked "what does LOL mean?" in a huge teen chat room. let's just say the responses weren't very polite either...

this is just to say in advance to those non-anime fans/people who know absolutely no Japanese whatsoever: my name, Legolas no Miko, is Japanese for "Priestess of Legolas".[Edited on 9/1/2002 by Legolas_no_Miko]
^_^ <= this is cute...I like it Big Smile Smilie

anyway...I agree with whoever said that it was better to have a younger Frodo...it was more understandable for him to be scared to death all the time than to have a character that looked 50 or even like 30 acting the same way.
Got a quote from PJ somewhere about the simnilarities between the whole Lotr and SW. And how he went to great pains to avoid them. Uppermost in his mind was the Frodo/Luke Skywalker thing, especially the fact that they both have Glowing swords!
chikakat: i know, it is very cute ^_^

PlasticSquirrel: *LOL* could you send that to me? i have a few friends that are huge SW fanatics and i'm sure they'd love to see it.
I bet George Lucas copied...
I think Elijah is a very talented actor who provided Frodo with a face and character we could identify with. He shows despair and compassion and his striking features give him the mystical and slightly strange look that hobbits should have, [but although they did make an effort (with the side burns) he wasn't hairy enough, still; that's cosume's fault - not Elijah's.] I can see Tolkien's Frodo in there, even though as we know, the true Frodo as Tolkien meant will never be played by an actor. Elijah did well, and we love him for that.
Plastic Squirrel, I guess only women can understand the motherly instinct thing.

What more or less happens when you become a mother is that you suddenly get this really strong urge to protect children (not just your own).

I guess what I am saying about Frodo is that he looks a little childlike to me (which is a good thing - innocence and sweetness).

Still want to hug and kiss him. Don't think Elija Wood will oblige though.
I'll dig through all my Film mags and scan it in for you Legolas, it's part of a huge interview with Empire, and very good. As to Lucas copying Tolkien, the glowing sword thing is totally different. A lightsabre doesn't tell you when foes are near, that's just how it works. And both Frodo and Luke Skywalker are embodiments of the age-old little guy who comes good. Nobody ripped anyone off.
I didn't think there were any similarities between Frodo and Luke... Luke didn't know who his father was, Frodo did. Luke didn't inherit the mansion, Frodo did. I agree Star Wars is basically a "boy coming of age" film with good vs evil theme throughout. There's always a rogue, a beautiful girl (if there were similarities, I suppose Pippin should get the girl...)and a big bad evil dude.
Allyssa, I can see exactly where you're coming from, he needed protecting, and the facial expressions were heart-wrenching for us women, just because some don't understand don't think you are a 'triffle odd' as someone put it. I know what you mean, I chocked through some scenes because o it! Weathertop was one of the worst for the whole 'motherly intincts' bacause he got wounded and that was...well, lets say emotional![Edited on 11/1/2002 by Lanya]
Yeah, but who didn't? I had to pretend that I'd poked myself in the eye so as not to look too girly Big Smile Smilie
See, even Plastic cried at that passage. I feel a lot better in confessing that I did too now. Big Smile Smilie No really, when I'm reading a book I tend to let my feelings flow. I laugh out loud when things get really funny, I hold my breath when things get excited and my heart goes at 200 miles/hour then! It's great reading a book that way, you should try it! Big Smile Smilie

So they cried longer in the book than they did in the film? Good. Always suspected it. Tolkien wouldn't have let Gandalf "die" without the others crying or grieving for him. Now once again it was proven that Frodo really needed Gandalfs strenght, support and wisdom. Smile Smilie
i think Tolkien should've let Gandalf die. but he couldn't do it! tolkien treats all his characters nicely, don't they? he didn't have the heart to let them come to any real harm. what a big fat softie!
In the cold, cruel world, you can't get much more vulnerable once you're naked.

Strider looks foul, feels fair; whilest an evil person would look fair and feel foul. I think that was Sam's description.

Sure Frodo was happy Gandalf chose Sam as his traveling companion: now he only needed to carry half of his stuff; Sam would carry the rest. Big Smile Smilie And Sam could also carry a tune, knew all the words, as well as how to make smores. Sam was an excelant traveling companion; one couldn't ask for a better.
I heartily agree with Grondmster. Frodo is not a boy. He is a fifty years old and a very mature person (read once more his conversations with Faramir in the "Two Towers'!) . His relationship with Sam is not the friendship of two boys of equal age, but rather a father-son relationship; Sam becomes his heir. And, most important, his story is not the story of initiation (= becoming a hero in order to "live happily ever after"), but the story of sacrifice (= dying for others). It's true that he is not slain... but he is so much hurt that he can't enjoy life in Middle Earth anymore and must leave it forever.
I don't think they started off as father & son though. More like loyal servant-kind young master. After all, although Frodo was 50 plus - that's not very old in hobbit years is it? He only really started to mature when he left the Shire (and due to their shared adventures Sam became more of an 'equal') so the father-son relationship began on their way back to the Shire.

Now that I think about it, maybe after Arwen gave Frodo the stone or gem or something - that's when he suspected that he may not fully recover from his wounds and that there were other options.
I frankly don't think it was a father - son relationship. AT least not in the book. Frodo was never so concerned about Sam as Sam was for him. I think he only gave Sam Bag End because there was no one more worthy and he was frankly unable to justify doing otherwise. I frankly find the realtaionship quite the opposite: Sam the father and Frodo the Son. Or maybe it's more Nanny/ Child. Frodo acted like a Prince (though he alway complained and whined about his quest it was still his duty). Sam acting like his guardian.
I like Swampfaye's Prince/guardian concept more than the father/son; however, I think Sam was probably about 15-20 years younger than Frodo, so Prince/loyal retainer remains a better fit.
OK for Prince-loyal retainer, I only wanted to stress that they were not of the same age!
I also agree that Frodo changes during the Quest, but is this really maturation? Sam explains it at the end of the FOTR in terms of "schooling". Frodo starts like an unheroic adult from a peaceful country - and then becomes more and more able to copy with a very demanding situation. And then after having been imprisoned in the Tower on Cirith Ungol he gets so much hurt that he will never be the same again.
I wonder what really happened to him there. He was stripped naked... Nakedness appears seldom in the books of Tolkien and (if I am not wrong) is always associated with the sense of utter helplessness and breaking of all defences.
Returning to the question of his age... when I first read the LOTR at the age of fourteen and I realised that the main hero is a fifty-year-old fat hobbit "with red cheeks and inclined to be fat in the waist"... I did not like this too much, I'd prefer a nice young elf instead!
When we are young we of course prefer to read about young people (and to see them in a film!) And we prefer to watch the fates of heores which are physically attractive than of those who are just common or even unattractive. I think it was a great idea of Tolkien to choose as his chief hero an unattractive fifty-year-old.
Many other heroes of the LOTR are not young anymore. Aragorn is not young and feels so, Legolas behaves in a youthful way but is well aware of his age... I even do not mention Gandalf or Elrond or GAladriel!
Maybe this is why anime is so popular - but the truth is... even if you are a fat 50 year old, you still remember (and even feel) what it was to be 16. Tolkien's heros reflected the reality of war and nearly impossible missions... unlike Anime, you don't send a 15 year old to stop a dark lord. (With all due respect to 15 year olds...). British spies in WWII weren't teenagers, they were quite often older (but not too old) men and women with plenty of wisdom behind them and the wits enough to realize the danger they were in (you see in Pippin the dangers of youth in these situations... acting without forethought of the dangers they are putting themselves and others in..).

Frodo wasn't an "old" man. He was a thirty something in human years. Old enough to know duty and young enough to perform it...
i guess traditionally, (going way back to the time of the Odyssey) male heroes are portrayed as someone who is physically attractive and sexually virile- qualities that were most admired in men. they didn't necessarily have to be too bright- think Achilles, but still big, handsome and bonkable. and Frodo is anything but THAT. he's small, chubby and strangely asexual, not the kind that girls can fantasise about and swoon over. that is one of the most important elements that contribute to the overall masculinity to the book.
and the closest thing to sex we get in the book is Gandalf and Frodo's nakedness, which is not something you really want to visualise. *shudder*
*astonished*

Gandalf and Frodo were naked together? When?
I'm still a little worried about what the Orcs did to Frodo! :o
And Frodo is sort of thirty something ish equivalent yeah. Like James Bond, and Phillip Marlowe and about a billion other classic heroes.
I heard someone analogize Frodo's nakedness as being completely vunerable and utterly alone (was it here?), I think that was very true. No doubt this was the ultimate "low point" for Frodo. He thought he had lost the ring, he was cold, hungry (couldn't eat Orc food), alone and naked. And unlike the Sam, Frodo was not used to toil and labor. To be stripped bare would have been easier on Sam who was always a rather simple hobbit, but because of his station it made it even harder on Frodo.

Frodo, in my opinion, was the only hobbit who truly understood the quest. Sam was in it for Frodo (he could have continued without him, which a true quester would have done, but he returned for Frodo). Merry and Pippin were also in it for Frodo and got sidetracked into new quests (not unimportant ones..)
I can recall four examples of nakedness in Tolkien's books, two in LOTR (Gandalf naked when coming back to life after his fight with the Balrog, and then Frodo stripped naked by the Orcs in the Tower of Cirith Ungol) and two in Silm (Beren and Felagund and their companions stripped naked by Sauron, and Niniel lying naked on the mound of Finduilas after her flight from Glaurung).
Characteristically, Beren & Felagund & Comp. are told to be "naked and afraid" -> which suggests that nakedness symbolizes utter defencelessness... Hurin Thalion who defies Sauron in spite of a long torment is not told te be naked.

No Allyssa Frodo and Gandalf were never naked TOGETHER I am afraid!

Still one comment concerning the age of Frodo: it is true that it is not clear if we should think about him as being 35 or so, or 50. Hobbits are more long-lived than humans, and the Ring had its effect, too.
However, 50 year olds are certainly not young anymore but they are not yet old! This is a strange and dangerous age, people (and hobbits - do you remember Bilbo?) became uneasy. They do not remember how they felt when they were 16 - some of them actually FEEL again in the same way. And start to do strange things!
I read somewhere that Tolkien liked a lot the book of Sinclair Lewis entitled "Babbitt", a book about a very ordinary petty businessman who suddenly feels dissatisfied with his dull life and starts to have "adventures". There were even some speculations that the word "hobbit" "came" to Tolkien as an unconscious association with the word "Babbitt"!
There are many books & films exploring the same theme (H. G. Wells "The history of Mr Polly", the film "American Beauty"...) - and if I remember well, Julius Caesar also crossed Rubicon at about the same age...

I think it was great of Tolkien to make a hero of a little fat 50-year-old! Finally all these beautiful elves do relatively little to save the world...
Aragorn also is not really a "beautiful man". In Bree he admits that "his looks are against him", and he even tells that he is weary of distrust and is longing to be accepted "for his own sake"... Making heroes handsome and villains ugly is so very naive!...

One more comment about the bond between Frodo and Sam: they differ in respect to their social status (Frodo is an educated and rich "gentlehobbit", Sam is a simple gardener) but they shared a common passion long before the beginning of the Quest: they were both what might be called "fans of Elves". And they are both perceived by their fellow hobbits as unpractical escapists... So I think that Frodo had much affection for Sam long before the start of the Quest (he was really happy when Gandalf choose Sam as his companion!).

[Edited on 10/2/2002 by Eryan]
Too right! Sam did all the work..

isn't it odd, how none of the male characters (with the exception of elves) are described as 'good-looking'? tolkien does not focus on their looks, and when he does, they are purely objective, and an extension of their character. on the other hand, most 'good' female characters are described as beautiful- as if that was an attribute that Tolkien deemed worthy in a woman.
He was a bloke! What do you expect?
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