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Thread: Samwise Gamgee

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so..... u're saying that elves liked humans??
They liked the Edain (House of Beor, House of Haleth, House of Hador) but weren't mad keen on the easterlings.
Yeah, the Elves respected the Edain...and some were even quite fond of them. The Elves (and the Edain, for that matter) opposed the Easterlings because most of them were under the dominion of Morgoth (Sauron's boss).

right, gotcha.
so what are we getting at?
I hate the entire "going into the West" thing... I don't know why, but it bugs me big time about the story. It reminds me of a tradition observed in pre historic America of leaving your old behind to starve or freeze to death and calling it "traveling."
I've always liked the idea of leaving your old behind......

Of course nowadays it's called putting them in care Big Smile Smilie
Well the Eskimos still do that - they dump their elderly on a nice little iceberg & float them off into the sunset. I think that's barbaric though, but then I'm not an Eskimo so I wouldn't know.

Well the going into the West bit was initially a request from the Valar - Morgoth was still lurking somewhere on ME so the Valar (gods/angels whatever) wanted the Elves to move to Valinor (the West) so that they would be safe. So some did (Eldar), and some didn't(Sindar). Some of the Eldar (the Noldor, i.e. Galadriel etc.) rebelled and returned to ME to pursue Morgoth, who had stolen their Simarils. They eventually got whupped by Morgoth & his armies, and were rescued from annhilation when the Valar took pity on their plight (that's where Earendil comes in) and sent a huge army to ME to fight & defeat Morgoth. They pardoned the Nordor, stuffed Morgoth into the Timeless Void and invited them back to the West, thus leaving the world for men & Sauron to slug over.

Sort of. That's the Silmarillion in a hundred words, with a lot of battles, treachery, romance, heroes, villians, monsters, prophecies and tragedies left out.

As to where we're going with this, I don't know. I'm trying to point out that the Elves were not as stuck up as they may seem to be in LotR, and they left for a reason. And if they did harbour any animosity towards men, there were valid reasons I guess. Smile Smilie
hm... i was actually going to read Silmarillion but now i guess i don't have to. since Ungoliant sort of summed it up. Big Smile Smilie

the movie sam is so boring! i love the bit in the book where sam throws and apple at Ted... whatshisface in Bree. hilarious.
Movie Sam was really crap. Especially for going american when he got excited, and the apple bit, I really missed the apple bit.
GRRRRRRRRR Plastic! I loved the movie Sam. I think you don't like Sam at all anyway (and BTW everyone "goes American" when they sing, so it must just be that Sam is in perfect harmony!!)

I just went and saw it again last night and I couldn't help but say "poor Sam!" He's so good and don't forget that Galadriel looked right at him when she said that hope remained while the company was true. That was no mistake of editing, Sam's as true as you can get.

I'm going to have to stick a mini Gollum down your pants Plastic, if you don't stop picking on my poor Sam! Wink Smilie
Cool, mini Gollum huh..can I have one too? Big Smile Smilie

You shouldn't be so upset to everyone's ripping Sam to shreds, faye. After all, everyone knows that he's a nice loyal bloke & all. It's just that I can't stand him that all. But then you don't like Gollum either, so it's cool. Things will get pretty boring here if we all agreed with each other all the time. Smile Smilie
yeah i agree with ungoliant. Big Smile Smilie



the movie Sam was so bland and colourless.
that got on my nerves a bit. and he's too protective and possessive of Frodo. could get a little more than creepy there.
well... I see I'm going to have to stock up on my mini Gollums!! (BTW, I do like the character Gollum as an antagonist, just not as a companion for my poor Sam & Frodo. Good villians make bad friends!)

I will have to start a "I like Sam" society. I predict it will appeal to mostly heartland America types (who are very fond of the underdog).
I want a mini-Gollum NOW!!!
Please. Smile Smilie
Could be a very small society Faye.... Wink Smilie
Miniscule even...Big Smile Smilie

You could, however, run out of mini Gollums pretty fast. Wink Smilie
nah, I got one of those magic bags from the D&D shop Wink Smilie
*throws a 6* Ooh! I get a magic bag and three frog droppings points!
*burns D&D set, muttering rude words about it*
Oh, and it's not an English accent they are speaking with anyway Plastic... PJ said it is "Hobbitese" their own dialect. So there, y'all...
Talk about a cheap get-out clause! Somewhere back in the pre-release publicity it was annonunced that the Hobbits would all have British accents of some variant or another. I suppose since PJ had to cast a couple of Yanks (notorious for being crap at brit accents) he had to say something to make up for it.
We don't have to sound good, only look good... who wants to imitate a Brit anyway? It goes against 200 years of good sense and breeding...
God save our gracious Queen
Long Live our Noble Queen
God save the Queen

Send her victorious
Happy and Glorious
Long to reign over us
God save the queen

Your tea throwing antics don't scare us!!! Wink Smilie
*gets all teary eyed*

Dunno why but that anthem always brings a nice & cozy feeling to my heart. Reminds me of a warmer, saner and safer world of days long gone.

*sniff*



three words for you Plastic....

John

Phillip

Souza
I'll invite you all to read my article "Tolkien's Samwise Gamgee reveals good in us all..." in the Middle Earth Section of Planet-Tolkien. It's also going in the next update for sffworld.com, but I thought I'd post it here since we had such a good debate on him going...
Now then! Now Then! Whats all this!

Does this love spat between cousins get us any closer to understanding what makes Sam Gamgee tick? Does he or doesn't he? That's what the world wants to know. Big Smile Smilie

John
Phillip
Whoosa???? Big Smile Smilie Wink Smilie
I don't remember, but did Samwise lose all the weight he had? I know Frodo looked pale and worn, but Sam was always giving up his food for Frodo, did the book mention that he was thinner for the wear? (I remember Fatty Bulger was not fat any more at the Scouring of the Shire..). I wonder about the movie version Sam too... I know Sean Austin had to gain 30 pounds for the role and seeing pics of them on their "vacation" after filming, he definitely wasn't overweight (and may all you males be dammed for losing weight faster than women!!!).
Thanks, I really needed that!
I've always wanted to be overweight, but however much I eat, I just can't seem to put it on.....
you spiteful little rodent... Wink Smilie
Not spiteful, it's true. Sorry, can't seem to help it unfortunately. My mum used to try feeding me lard to get a bit of weight on me, but it didn't work
So how much do you weigh now then?
lard?!
oh dear...
well lucky you, plastic! you can stuff your face if all the chicken chikka masalas in the world and still be as thin as... (well, whatever's really thin)
meanwhile the rest of us, (hobbits included) have to go to the gym 4 times a week to keep the fab abs! NOT FAIR! Big Smile Smilie


Back to topic, I think the make up department will have a field day with Frodo and Sam when they go to mordor, using heaps of pasty foundation to make them look pale and gaunt. Wardrobe will have to shred their clothes and then find some really yucky orc stuff for them. Will Sam loose weight? Maybe, if the actor had to put it on for the role initially, he should find it easy to loose......

*loads another really large rat trap, baited with whatever Sean Austin likes to eat best.... Wink Smilie[Edited on 10/2/2002 by Allyssa]
Yeah, lets kill Sam in a rat trap! Big Smile Smilie
Btw, having been about a stone underweight for years (about 9 and a half stone) I've managed to get myself up to 11-ish now by doing the whole excercise thing, still no fat though.
Have you seen the promo pics of TTT? Frodo does look pale and worn, and there's Sam's rope! Can't tell if his thin, though.
http://www.cinescape.com/0/editorial.asp?aff_id=0&this_cat=Movies&action=page&type_id=&cat_id=270338&obj_id=32401

If they can make Frodo / Elijah look even more pitiable than he did in Fellowship... that is truly a feat!
(Ignore the squirrel)
D*mn, Plastic. 11 stones-ish for your height is still underweight! Maybe you'll gain more as you get past thirty - that's when a bloke's metabolism rate slows down.

Sorry faye, Frodo looks the same to me. Slightly dirtier, but that's to be expected.
*munches choccy biccies* Is it?!? B*gger! Get Me to a chinese takeaway!!!!! Big Smile Smilie

And frodo just looks dirtier, it's true, and what scene was that meant to be anyway?
Pretty sure it's the part where Faramir finds him and Sam...
And Arargon looks even dirtier and sexier then before. didn't know it was possible... Wink Smilie
Didn't see a change on Frodo either. Just looks dead scared, weary and dirty, as to be expected. The pictures of the Rohan men look promising though. Must be a good movie. :o :P
speaking of... I just read in Cinescape (my fav scifi mag...could you tell?) that Peter Jackson said that even though he hasn't even begun to put all the pieces together for it, he is certain that "Return of the King" will be his favorite. Since he's done such agood job at converting me... I'll take his word for it and think it will be my fav too.
Interesting...so, from what you know of PJ...do you think he'll put in the Scouring of the Shire then? Or will in end after Aragorn's wedding? Is he the type of director that will go for grand finales or will the story just fade quietly away?
Quote:
Interesting...so, from what you know of PJ...do you think he'll put in the Scouring of the Shire then? Or will in end after Aragorn's wedding? Is he the type of director that will go for grand finales or will the story just fade quietly away?


taking what I have seen in FOTR in the mirror of Galadriel, and given what I know (that Sean Austin's little girl is in the movie as Elanor), I think there will in fact be a scouring of the shire... I think maybe just fade quietly away with Sam looking into the west, knowing he won't see Frodo for a very long time (if ever... in his mind...)
Sniff. Sad Smilie

For Tolkien's sad ending, not because PJ will choose to use it.

He could also do a voice-over during the credits to tell some of the Appendix A history that followed the sailing of the ring bearers' ship. That way a sense of optomism for the future could be imparted to replace the sadness of the parting. Cool Smilie
Reading the Appendix depressed me even more! reading about Aragorn and Arwen's death was awful. i wanted my characters in LOTR frozen in the time Tolkien leaves off... do not want to hear that life goes on and death is a part of it too. that just spoils the whole thing, it's like knowing what's going to happen in the future.
dittos to what Rosie said. If I were writing the movie's ending, I'd have Frodo be so delerious and so sick with grief and memories of Mordor that the elves come and say his only hope is to go into the west.. so Sam faithfully trods his sick master to the ship that sails West and he returns home and tells Elanor "let me tel you about uncle Frodo..."
*wipes a tear* Faye, that was lovely, can you direct a new version of the whole trilogy for me?
you find me the funding, the rights and the script... and I"ll do the rest Wink Smilie
Hmmmm... tricky..... if I do, then you have to put me in as Tom Bombadil and my Dog gets to have a bit part too.
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