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yeah, he is the best definitely. Especially in the movie, I think it's the Scots accent that helps him out there. That classic greatest line in the whole movie again "So... Where are we going then?" Big Smile Smilie
yeah he's cute...
but one of the greatest mysteries, after watching the movie, my friend said to me "That guy who pushed that skeleton down that well is so hot!"
WHAT?????
I guess your friend was referring to the thingy in the mines of Moria, where (I think it was Pippin, but it could have been Merry as well, I couldn't keep them apart) one of them was looking at (read: slightly touching) this dwarf-skeleton, and the whole thing scattered down in a well. You remember it, where the fellowship is at Balin's tomb, and Gandalf is reading in the book, there's a deadly silence, and all of a sudden there's that great noise of the skeleton falling down the well. I think it was Pippin who did that. Big Smile Smilie
I kinda liked those hobbits too. They brought a bit of humour into the film. The way they distracted the Uruk-Hai, I mean... Big Smile Smilie
Pippin is definitely my favorite of the hobbits...actually one of my favorite characters overall...
Yup, I agree with chika. Bilbo is my favourite hobbit, but Pippin is my favourite 'Fellowship' hobbit. He's funny, brave, inquisitive...and a bit daft. I love the way he always seems to get in trouble, especially with Gandalf. That scene at Rivendell (not in the movies, boo hoo), dropping the stone into the well at Moria, looking into the palantir...great stuff. Tom-fool of a Took!
I thought what followed Pippin's stone down the well and Galdalf's outburst was one of the scariest parts of Moria.
Quote:
Nothing more was heard for several minutes; but then there came out of the depths faint knocks: tom-tap, tap-tom. They stopped, and when the echoes had died away, they were repeated: tap-tom, tom-tap, tap-tap, tom. They sounded disquietingly like signals of some sort; but after a while the knocking died away and was not heard again.
Oooooh stuck buried down here in the dark, under miles of stone, and already worried about Goblins 'n Trolls 'n Orcs Oh My!! Goblins 'n Trolls 'n Orcs Oh My!! And now that tapping noise suddenly indicates "You are NOT alone!." *shiver, shiver*
Well, he may have been comic relief in Fellowship, but in the book at least, he was quite clever. In TT it was Pippin who took the initiative on everything. He left clues behind for ARagorn to follow (quite wisely). I agree that Bilbo is a great hero.. I will always love the Hobbit, but in LOTR, Pippin is definitely the underdog hobbit that deserves much more praise!
Hahaha Big Smile Smilie
good one...

OH MY GOD! i just found a run in stocking..
shit..
On the same topic, do you think they will have Pippin steal the orb from Gandalf in the next movie?
Of course! it's one of the best parts in the book, if not pivotal...
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Well, he may have been comic relief in Fellowship, but in the book at least, he was quite clever. In TT it was Pippin who took the initiative on everything. He left clues behind for ARagorn to follow (quite wisely).I agree that Bilbo is a great hero.. I will always love the Hobbit, but in LOTR, Pippin is definitely the underdog hobbit that deserves much more praise!

Hmmm, true. Shades of the Hobbit Bilbo in Pippin...never thought of it that way before. Cool Smilie

I'm sure they'll show Pippin stealing the palantir. It's one of those scenes that directors seem to love:

*dark, gloomy night. Owl hoots*
- X lies asleep. Beard flaps gently/violently as he snores.
- Box/pouch/casket holding key/letter/jewels/quest item/palantir under X's arm/leg/robe
- Y creeps stealthily towards X
- Y stops halfway. Checks to see if coast is clear. Coast is clear. Y proceeds
- Y reaches X. Reaches into X's pocket/robe, removes the box/pouch/casket
- Owl hoots/wind blows shutter open/leaf or bird lands on X's nose
- X stretches. Y gets a fright.
- X settles down/continues to snore.
- Y relaxes. Retrieves key/letter/quest item from box/pouch/casket
- Y makes a quick getaway.
- Audience breathe sigh of relief.
- Newspapers proclaim movie a success & full of suspense and excitement.
I think his grandfather was "the Took" you were talking about. Pippin mentions in the third book that he's not yet "come of age", so he's probably the youngest of all the hobbits. He's definitely a "blue blood", an aristocrat (while Frodo may be considered "nuveau riche"). In the prologue of Fellowship I think there was a part about the Tooks and their importance in days past (and future, I suppose). Merry is definitely more responsible (not portrayed in the movie) as the head of his house and such.
Ah, but will they have pippin replace the orb with a rock? I think that they might avoid that for fear it might look a little too "Indiana Jones" ish.. And will they have the eye speak to Pippin, or just scare him. In the book it speaks to him and tells him to warn Saruman. I'm thinking they'll skip this part... what about you? It may be a little too complicated for a movie (but makes sense in a book, with the description).
I don't think the Indy paralells will be drawn, as Pippin won't then have to run off down THAT corridoor. Totally different. And despite them not quite doing it properly, they did get Boromir being pulled to the ring in very well, so they should be able to do the same with Pippin and the Palantir.
*Not yet Phillip, but here, pull my finger!*

Pippin was more like the carefree young aristocrat - the closest thing to a blueblood the hobbits had. His daddy was Thain, wasn't he? Merry & Bilbo/Frodo were of the lesser gentry, hence their seriousness & sense of responsibility. I think.
You kidding right? Merry was one of the masters of Buckland! Hardly lesser gentry, unless you're a real Hobbit snob.

*Do you like apples Terence?*
What on earth are you people talking about???

getting back to the topic, I think Pippin is meant to be like the Kid who was suddenly thrust into the role of a Grown-up. And not being very good at that either. argh. i can't think. too early in da morning. oh wait, it's 1pm already.. gr...
Yeah, like faye said. Also I don't think the hobbits had pure aristocrats as such in their social structure...just more like gentry. Pippin would be on the upper end, and is definitely ranked highest among the Fellowship hobbits, since his father was the Thain (I remember reading in the appendices that Pippin eventually became Thain as well). Merry would be next, then Bilbo/Frodo, and last of all Sam.

*I do Phillip, is that one up your butt?*
I never really thought about the characters like that.

Perhaps Pippin's carefree attitude to everyone (remember how chummy he was with Theodan) is rather telling of his 'class'. He has a lot more confidence about him... Sort of like the English Public School-boy. Cool Smilie
That's how I had always imagined Pippin anyway. A watered-down version of Toad from Wind in the Willows.
I thought of him more like Huck Finn... never really starting the trouble but jumping in with both feet once it began.
Who are all these people??? Got confused again. Smile Smilie

Never thought about Pippin's social class. But if Pippin would not yet have come of age in RotK, which is true cos I read it too, there must be a huge age difference between him and Frodo, who comes of age in the beginning of LOTR. How come they got on so well? And Merry too. How old was he anyway? And Sam? Since he's a gardener, he took over his father's job at Bag End, he must have been considered an adult, but what about his age eh? Big Smile Smilie
i think Sam's supposed to be older than Frodo. well, that's how i pictured it anyway.
I think Frodo's older than Sam...not sure about that. I think in terms of seniority, it would be Frodo, then Sam or Merry. Piipin would be the little brat always tagging along during Frodo's escapades in his younger days. They got on so well because, with the exception of Sam, they're all related one way or another. Check out the family trees at the back of LotR.
I always got the impression that Frodo and Sam were pretty close in age, and Merry and Pippin were close, with Sam and Frodo being the oldest...

I never attributed Pippin's attitude to his class...I just kind of figured he was kind of a brat like that... Wink Smilie
Pippin was the youngest, and it's easier to forgive all his chattiness and the inquisitiveness that gets him into trouble if you know he's young (hasn't *come of age* yet). I especially liked his chattiness in the book and I hope they can keep some semblance of this in the movies (like where Gandalf warns the steward of Gondor his life may be in danger for encouraging questions from *this* particular hobbit). I can't remember which book it's in, but Gandalf started limiting Pippin's questions to "one per day" or something like that... kinda funny really.
Agree with faye on all counts.

Also the fact that he *was* the Thain's son gave him that extra bit of confidence in dealing with people. Kinda like what Rosie said. A bit like Bertie Wooster - daft yet lovable.
In TTT and ROTK Gandalf hung out with Pippin a lot. Do you think he was really trying to keep him out of trouble (was he just *that* mischeivious) or did Gandalf just want a hobbit for company? If he was so much trouble, why did Gandalf let him come along in the first place? Was his role with the steward of Gondor that important?

I really like Pippin, my favorite character, but I still don't think he was very important to the story.
Swampfaye posted on 29/1/2002 at 22:56
Quote:
Was his role with the steward of Gondor that important?

I really like Pippin, my favorite character, but I still don't think he was very important to the story.
TELL THAT TO FARAMIR :P
i always thought the reason behind Gandalf and Pippin's journey to Gondor was so that Tolkien could separate the two Hobbits, Merry and Pippin who until then had always been sort of lumped together. When they have separate adventures, i suppose we find more about their character as individuals. like Merry and how he sneaks off to the war with Eowyn. Very cute.
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like Merry and how he sneaks off to the war with Eowyn. Very cute.


To quote Gollum "SNEAKIN'?"

It was very sad how Pippin grew so close to the steward of Gondor, just to see him go mad and have to "snitch" on him. But you never answered my question about Gandalf... did he like having hobbits along with him?
Offcourse he did it gives a feeling of superiority Smile Smilie
I think it was a combonation of keeping Pippin out of trouble and also genuinley liking hobbits. Remember Gandalf liked spending time in the Shire, and enjoyed learning the ways of all the hobbits.
Gandalf made a great study of Hobbits. Upon returning to Valinor, his disertation toward the earning of his 11th degree from the College of Wizards, Engineering, and Agriculture at the University, was to be "The Hobbit, Its Care and Breeding Habits". I suppose you didn't read that in Appendix H to the LOTR, either, did you? :P

WARNING: The Appendix F is the last of the Appendices to LOTR; thus, the above paragraph is a load of dingo's droppings, in case you hadn't realized it as such. Big Smile Smilie[Edited on 1/2/2002 by Grondmaster]
But faye's right in a way though...Pippin is not that important to the story. At least Merry help wound the Witch King, whereas Pippin only killed a troll. The only time he was important was when he snitched on Denethor. But I like him anyway.

Chika's right too - it's a combination of both. Can't remember the exact sequence of events, but I thought that Gandalf had intended to ride with Aragorn & co - only the Witch King's sudden appearance *after* Pippin looked into the palantir caused him to change his mind & head straight to Gondor instead. I think he would have left Pippin with Merry & Aragorn if Pippin hadn't messed with the palantir.
Quote:
Gandalf made a great study of Hobbits. Upon returning to Valinor, his disertation toward the earning of his 11th degree from the College of Wizards, Engineering, and Agriculture at the University, was to be "The Hobbit, Its Care and Breeding Habits". I suppose you didn't read that in Appendix H to the LOTR, either, did you? :P


That's kinda creepy... That makes Hobbits sound like rats. I didn't read much of any of the appendixes. Just skipped around to anything that looked interesting. (it is an appendix after all, which means it is not necessary to understand the story).

I think Gandlaf just liked HObbit company. Liked to have someone along to sing with him. And though I thoroughly enjoyed Pippin in the book, I don't think he was anything but a relief from the tedious company everyone had to keep!

WARNING: The Appendix F is the last of the Appendices to LOTR; thus, the above quoted paragraph is a load of dingo's droppings, in case you hadn't realized it as such. Big Smile Smilie[Edited on 1/2/2002 by Grondmaster]
*puts on his moderating hat*
now Grondy, stop winding people up with your false information, it's not big, and it's not clever Wink Smilie
Okay Mr. Squirrel, I put a warning on my previous post and the one where it was quoted.

Oooh, Oooh I'd feel chastised except I did use the word 'either'. :P
Oh, it's okay... poke fun at the newbie/ Tolkien layman... I don't mind. Everyone has to get initiated, right?... Wait... they don't??? Well mini gollums down the pants then Wink Smilie

(BTW I sent my books to my brother so he could read the trillogy and so I couldn't check the apendixes!)
Dingo Droppings? hehe. First time I've heard that one! And I live in a country overrun with them....nearly. Big Smile Smilie Big Smile Smilie
we still have dingoes??
where? where?
Big Smile Smilie Big Smile Smilie Big Smile Smilie
What are we talking about??? Big Smile Smilie
Pippin is not important to the story, no, but so what??? Is Tom important to the story? No. But (nearly) everyone likes him. Same goes for Pippin. He just cute, childish, and you feel for him. Smile Smilie
I was just pointing out that Poor Pip has no main focus... all he does is steal the palantir, and maybe that's important enough. But I sure wanted him to do more slashing. Of all the hobbits, he was the one everyone kept saying "you remind me of a child" and he had been least affected by going through war. I do find that intriguing, but it may be because he didn't have to go through as much...
No I think faye's right Tommy - he seems like the least important fellowship hobbit although he helped save Faramir, stole the palantir & chucked the stone down the well (thus being indirectly responsible for Gandalf's death). Maybe it's because Tolkien used him to provide comic relief - therefore we feel that his contributions aren't as significant as Frodo's, Sam's or Merry's.
I think Peter will let Pippin tackle a troll in ROTK. Then you will finally get your heart's content worth of all the slashings, lashings, bashings, and smashings of and by this, the littlest and least (so you say) significant hobbit in the fellowship. Wink Smilie
the least important?
i certainly think not! i think all the characters are there for a reason, and yes, that includes Tom Bombadil too, and they in someway or the other make ME more 'real'. i don't know about Pippin's character as far as depth and originality goes (haven't really thought about it) but having him there seems somehow appropriate. Pippin's role in the overall story is perhaps not as important as Frodo's or even Merry's, but to me Pippin embodys everything that's loveable about a hobbit.
I didn't mean he was the least significant, at least not to me (I always have trouble deciding between Pippin and Sam) just that they could have managed the story without him.. does that make sense??? because looking it over, it doesn't make sense to me..[Edited on 12/2/2002 by swampfaye]
Then are we agreed that, but for Pippin, Éowyn would have lived a miserable life in some horse trader's yurt or minor chieftain's hill-fort, unless she found some way out sooner, like sewerside?

Pippin was necessary to the story, just not specifically to the ring quest, other than as a catalyst with Merry to draw the Ents into action against Saruman and to instill yet more paranoia in Sauron via the palantír.
Here we go again... Let's discuss about whether Pippin is important to the story or not... Love this... Big Smile Smilie

Pippin was important because:
A) By looking in the Palantir, he made Gandalf see how dangerous this really was, and since Gandalf was tempted to do it, Pippin did it for him, thus saving him.
B) Pippin was the one that saved him and Merry out of the hands of the Orcs that captured them, right?
C) Pippin did not throw anything down a pool in the book, so he is NOT responsible for Gandalf's death, mind you.
D) In the book, Pippin and Merry are even more alike than they are in the film. They seem to be doing everything together, and they both were the youngest of the fellowship.
E) Pippin becomes the Steward of Gondor, even though he is a hobbit. That must mean that Denethor had confidence in Pippin doing good in his army, that he would be useful.
F) The fact that Pippin becomes Steward of Gondor, is very important for the End of the book. Together with Merry, Pippin saves the future of the Shire, and both him and Merry will be very important for that very future.
So Pippin might not play a very big role in the Fellowship, or in the quest of the Ring, but he is important to the story. Every character is, in his own way. Smile Smilie
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C) Pippin did not throw anything down a pool in the book, so he is NOT responsible for Gandalf's death, mind you.

:o Have you read "Journey in the Dark" before Tommy?
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