Login | Register
 
Message Board | Latest Posts | Your Recent Posts | Rules

Thread: Week 1 - The Nature of Hobbits

Is this discussion interesting? Share it on Twitter!

Bottom of Page    Message Board > Tolkien Weekly Courses > Week 1 - The Nature of Hobbits   
The Nature of Hobbits


In Letter # 27 from Letters of J R R Tolkien we find a physical description of a Hobbit that he invisioned:

Quote:
I picture a fairly human figure, not a kind of fairy rabbit as some of my British reviewers seem to fancy: fattish in the stomach, shortish in the leg. A round, jovial face; ears only slightly pointed and elvish; hair short and curling (brown). The feet from the ankles down, covered with brown hairy fur. Clothing: green velvet breeches; red or yellow waistcoat; brown or green jacket; gold (or brass) buttons; a dark green hood and cloak (belonging to a dwarf).


Hobbits appeared in Middle Earth about the same time as Men. Men called them Halfling referring to their height range of between 2 and 4 feet, about one half that of a man. The Elves referred to the Hobbit as Periannath. Most hobbits preferred to live in tunnels or holes.
Hobbits adapted the Common Speech of Men. They spoke less and less with the Elves and became afraid of them.

Characteristics of the Hobbit include:

- peace loving
- hospitable delighting in parties and presents
- do not like or understand machines
- generous
- free from ambition and greed
- merry folk
- not lovers of learning unless genealogy
- do not hurry
- contented and moderate
- fond of simple jests
- fond of eating 6 meals a day
- slow to quarrel
- fond of smoking a pipe
- disapprove of adventurous or indiscreet behaviour
- nimble and deft in their movements
- shy of big folk
- slow to change


Questions to ponder for discussion:

Given what we know about the nature of Hobbits, was Boromir right in his concern about Frodo's role as the Ringbearer?

How did the Hobbits prove that they were worthy of being part of The Fellowship?




And the log for this discussion is included below.
Quote:

Session Start: Sun Oct 13 00:00:00 2002
Session Ident: #Bilbos-Study
[21:04] Let's start with the nature of the Hobbit.
[21:04] Give me a couple of characteristics of Hobbits.
[21:04] Innocence
[21:04] Fury and round
[21:05] stay at homers
[21:05] some say they are xenophobic
[21:05] good ones.
[21:05] Shy of the Big Folk
[21:05] non-greedy
[21:05] tricksters
[21:05] Except when it comes to food or bday presents :o) grondy.
[21:05] short and plump
[21:06] Homely, and like their comforts and food
[21:06] down to earth
[21:06] realistic in nature
[21:06] Was Boromir right in his suspicions about Frodo?
[21:06] non-technical
[21:06] But at a push, hardy and resilient
[21:06] Please remind us what his suspicions where and with what intent.
[21:07] In your own personal opinion as the teacher.
[21:07] Boromir did not feel comfortable with the fate of Middle Earth in the hands of Frodo, a Hobbit.
[21:07] "You hold the fate of us all, little one"
[21:08] Has a rather condesending ring to it
[21:08] Does anyone know what experience or contact Boromir had had with Hobbits previous to his meeting with Frodo etc at the council?
[21:08] I feel Boromir was perfectly justified in his opinion... If this wasn't a piece of fiction, they'd have almost certainly failed
[21:08] Why Val
[21:09] They were exceedingly lucky
[21:09] then comes in the debate of destiny though
[21:09] No Taz, just Boromir's statement that men of Gondor have paid with their blood to protect the Shire.
[21:09] Its not the sort of gamble anyone would justify in the real world
[21:09] he didnt really have much choice
[21:10] the way the ring chose per say
[21:10] Not really, he didn't know about Tookish blood.
[21:10] Hmm, Dagaz is right. Realistically it doesn't matter whether Hobbit or Man as neither were more likely to have success with the journey of the ring. Considering what was agaisnt them.
[21:10] * Dagaz nods
[21:10] I think Destiny was the majour part.
[21:10] sorry
[21:10] * orange has joined #bilbos-study
[21:10] * Barliman sets mode: +v orange
[21:10] So who would have been the better choice as ringbearer, Man or Hobbit or Istari..?
[21:11] welcome orange.
[21:11] hi
[21:11] non substancial
[21:11] is more important who was sent with it to protect them
[21:11] Boromir was a warrior and understood little else...strength of arms is what he judged things by. An hobbit was a bad choice
[21:11] we are discussing the risk of using a Hobbit as a Ringbearer.
[21:12] + hobits fit in holes nicely out the way of trouble
[21:12] Sometimes a warrior is not the best choice, Val.
[21:12] Against the hordes of Mordor a sneaky thief would be better than a warrior
[21:12] Actually, that is a good point Dagaz, their physical apprearance would be an advantage.
[21:13] the non-greediness would make the hobbit a better choice
[21:13] I think the ring bearer was chosen on their character and will to continue to through whatever stood before them. Ignoring personal apearance it was Decided that Frodo and the love of his friends were the right choice.
[21:13] Would you consider Frodo a sneaky thief?
[21:13] a sneaky adventous (sp) hobbit
[21:13] hobbits just have no ambition so they fit quite well to that role
[21:13] Personally, I believe an Hobbit was a good choice.. Boromir would have overlooked their potential though
[21:13] good one orange
[21:14] i'd disagree
[21:14] where there is no ambition, then the Ring has less power?
[21:14] I don't agree with Orange's comment completely, as it depends on what is deemed ambition.
[21:14] everyone has an ambition even hobbits
[21:14] Look at Bilbo and his want for more adventure and such forth.
[21:14] Frodos ambition was to go home
[21:14] an ambition can be as simple as wanting to find someone to settle down with or to earn enough money to live comfortably
[21:15] More Frodo's goal than ambition, I think Val
[21:15] i mean ambition to take over ME
[21:15] ic orange, you are right. Hobbits were very content with the way things were.
[21:15] I think the problem was that Hobbits were protected from the outside world.
[21:15] hmm but was frodo not content? didnt he want to explore have an adventure?
[21:16] Certainly their lack of wanting power lessened the Ring's hold on them
[21:16] and if so isnt that ambition?
[21:16] just remember what Sam thought when he was tempted to put in the Ring
[21:16] Frodo had mixed feelings about exploration.
[21:16] what was that orange?
[21:16] I remember.
[21:16] but Frodo didn't explore until he had to leave the Shire to protect it
[21:17] Why not, if he wanted to explore. Why did he wait so long?
[21:17] age
[21:17] because staying at home was more fun
[21:17] security?
[21:18] The same reason some of us only dream about exploring
[21:18] true Dagaz, age would be a big one.
[21:18] It's a dangerous world out there
[21:18] it is a dangerous world which ever one ur on
[21:18] It's something you can put off for a year
[21:19] and dinner is harder to come by, while exploring
[21:19] So could any Hobbit have been the Ringbearer. Pippin and Merry certainly proved their valour. Could they have done the task?
[21:19] when u are untrained at hunting yes
[21:20] Sam seemed to make every camp site homely
[21:20] possibly but i feel the ring chose frodo for a reason
[21:20] ok
[21:20] no, the ring choise Bilbo
[21:20] ...as the Ring chose Bilbo.
[21:20] nods
[21:21] the ring knew when bilbo time was up
[21:21] I think the ring chose Boromir
[21:21] Gandlalf chose Frodo
[21:22] the ring tried to choose Boromir
[21:22] the ring showed over time that it was very clearly in charge of where it was going and who was taking it their, however subtle it did it
[21:22] That could very well be, once Sauron realized that the Hobbit was not easily controlled by the Ring.
[21:22] The living part of the Ring was the will of Sauron.
[21:23] the Ring was evil
[21:23] in some peoples eyes
[21:23] i don't think the ring actualy chose hobbits
[21:23] If Boromir was not influenced by the Ring, would he have trusted Frodo?
[21:24] no
[21:24] No
[21:24] boromir thought hobbits were weak
[21:24] He'd have trusted him ,but not his abilities
[21:24] I don't think the Hobbits really got to demonstrate their worthiness in the Fellowship of the Ring.
[21:24] Boromir could only see the hobbit's outward appearance
[21:25] i think they did very well all things considered
[21:25] Not their inner strengths
[21:25] He could only judge a man by his strength of arms
[21:25] adapting to a new way of life is ahrd and they managed it
[21:25] Since they protected the Hobbits from the evils of the outside world, he must have felt they were a weak race.
[21:25] * plasticsquirrel has joined #bilbos-study
[21:25] * Barliman sets mode: +v plasticsquirrel
[21:25] sh!!
[21:25] Made it
[21:25] he Squirrel
[21:25] Hi Plastic
[21:26] Man that took a bit of doing
[21:26] Skwrel
[21:26] Just flying through briefly anyway, will be even briefer now, what's going down?
[21:26] sit down and don't interrupt the class Plastic
[21:26] now where were we.......?
[21:27] Why would the rest of ME feel Hobbits needed protection?
[21:28] new land, strange ways
[21:28] Most of ME was not protecting them. The Rangers were. Most people did not know they existed
[21:28] * plasticsquirrel sits down and shuts up
[21:28] Because of their innocense, they looked like rabbits.
[21:29] is like having a guide in a foriegn country
[21:29] Bilbo and Frodo were different from the other Hobbits. In what ways were they different?
[21:30] more sense
[21:30] + would u trust ur fate to such a small group who clearly knew not how to defend themselves?
[21:30] curisoty (sp)
[21:30] I'd have sent the Ring over the sea
[21:30] They were elf friends
[21:31] I think that is definitely how Boromir felt, Dagaz. Do we get that impression from Legolas, gimli or Aragorn?
[21:31] They'd certainly got the lore
[21:31] * hello has joined #bilbos-study
[21:31] * Barliman sets mode: +v hello
[21:31] Hey hello
[21:31] hello hello
[21:31] hi
[21:31] how r all
[21:31] hi hello
[21:32] and yes
[21:32] universal greetings to all, hello
[21:32] * hello is now known as Unnamed-81A1AC
[21:32] but the others also felt their responsibilty to the prophecy as such
[21:32] its there a little guy here with funny hair?
[21:32] So how where they different Rednell
[21:33] Frodo and Bilbo Val?
[21:33] Yes
[21:33] Gandalf vouched for them
[21:33] One thing was their interest in the world outside the Shire. Most Hobbits had no such interest.
[21:34] Other hobbits would say they had that Tookishness about them
[21:34] * Unnamed-81A1AC has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
[21:34] That is interesting Val. It most certainly was likely the Tookishness.
[21:34] * wonder has joined #bilbos-study
[21:34] * Barliman sets mode: +v wonder
[21:34] but surely, the tooks had that as well?
[21:34] Hey m8
[21:35] hello
[21:35] Most Hobbits in the Shire come from the Harfoot strain while the Tooks are thought to be from the Fallohides.
[21:35] What kind of hobbit was Frodo... The tooks were Fallowhides to a large exxtent
[21:35] snap
[21:35] bit of this, bit of that
[21:36] The Harfoots preferred a simple contented lifestyle and stability. The Fallowhides were the hunters of the Hobbit race and when they settled in the Shire they became the leaders and strongest.
[21:37] Were not the Fallohides more comfortable around elves?
[21:37] They were even more elven looking
[21:37] Yes, they were. The Harfoots did not like the Elves.
[21:38] And the Stoors were more Dwarven?
[21:38] yes, the Stoors lived with the Dwarves before their numbers diminished.
[21:39] It's strange how there were a class of hobbits similar to each of the three races
[21:39] and they lived by the River Anduin
[21:39] Just circumstance?
[21:40] or fate?
[21:40] It was their environment
[21:40] evolution therom?
[21:40] I never thought of that. It is interesting. Could it be just because of the places they chose to live when they came across the mountains.
[21:40] * Elven_Archer has joined #bilbos-study
[21:40] * Barliman sets mode: +v Elven_Archer
[21:41] * plasticsquirrel was kicked by Barliman (As you requsted?)
[21:41] Don't ask, but that's what he pm'd me to do.
[21:41] I agree with Grondmaster, probably more their environment.
[21:41] hi
[21:41] Lo EA
[21:41] Hi EA
[21:42] wb Elven
[21:42] what's goin' on?
[21:42] It does have that effect over time
[21:42] yup
[21:42] * Elven_Archer has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
[21:43] Who they grew up around id who they were comfortable with
[21:43] Whoops, lost her before I got it out.
[21:43] agree
[21:43] That'd be the case
[21:44] So those near the center of the Shire would most likely be the most "Hobbitish"
[21:44] and less outlandish
[21:44] They'd have the least contact with other races
[21:45] whos to say they are not field variety?
[21:45] Yes, because those were the ones which were looking for stability.
[21:45] that a true hobbit is something else
[21:45] And I suppose they didn't want outside influences upsetting things for their contented lives.
[21:45] * Samwisegamgee has joined #bilbos-study
[21:45] * Barliman sets mode: +v Samwisegamgee
[21:45] That surely sounds like me.
[21:46] Hi Sam
[21:46] hi Sam
[21:46] Hi!
[21:46] You can associate with the Hobbits, Grondmaster?
[21:46] So could you tell me briefly what it was you were saying?
[21:46] * MellieAway has joined #Bilbos-study
[21:46] * Barliman sets mode: +v MellieAway
[21:46] hey Mellie
[21:47] hi Mellie
[21:47] Hobbit nature etc mainly Sam
[21:47] * plasticsquirrel has joined #bilbos-study
[21:47] * Barliman sets mode: +v plasticsquirrel
[21:47] wb pman
[21:47] sure, I,m short and fat, don't likd change
[21:47] Cheers
[21:47] wb P
[21:47] * Elven_Archer has joined #bilbos-study
[21:47] * Barliman sets mode: +v Elven_Archer
[21:47] wb
[21:47] * Kateri has joined #Bilbos-study
[21:47] * Barliman sets mode: +v Kateri
[21:47] one and all
[21:47] wb EA
[21:47] hi
[21:48] Well, Sam, we were discussing the characteristics of Bilbo and Frodo which sets them apart from other Hobbits which led to the discussion of the 3 strains of Hobbits
[21:48] did I get in
[21:48] yup
[21:48] okay...for one, they were 'book learned'.
[21:48] wow i am not disconnected
[21:48] yes, you are here, Kat
[21:48] btw this is Mellie
[21:48] yes, that is a good point, Sam
[21:49] yeah it is...
[21:49] they were interested in the world around them, they knew there was more to ME than the Shire
[21:49] and that in my mind is what motivated them
[21:49] It is interesting that Bilbo, Frodo and Pippin had Tookish blood and that Merry had the Brandybuck blood which was also Fallohide.
[21:49] * MellieAway has quit IRC (Ping timeout)
[21:49] Sam, however, he is different.
[21:50] Gandalf must have been looking in on the Shire a long time to notice Bilbo was different
[21:50] * Taz is now known as Socks
[21:50] Yeah, but Sam wasn't really the adventurous type at heart
[21:50] yeah.
[21:50] * Kateri is now known as Mellie
[21:51] Sam was just there to do the dishes
[21:51] of course I'm different...but I see what you mean. He also knew there was more to life than the Shire. He just didn't know as much as Bilbo and Frodo did about it.
[21:51] Hence Sam was always the follower and not the leader
[21:51] ah but he was a good bloke
[21:51] good point Val.
[21:51] no Sam wan not adventurous, but very loyal to Frodo
[21:51] s'a matter of opinion....
[21:51] Plastic, no Sam wasn't , but he learned a lot from Bilbo, to read for one thing
[21:52] I think that was part of Tolkien's point, he didn't need to be adventorous or smart to be a hero
[21:52] lets c sam or boromir by my side,?
[21:52] Sam was a bit adventurous and he loved elves
[21:52] but Asm was interested in elves
[21:52] i would go with sam,
[21:52] what do you mean wonder?
[21:52] me too
[21:52] He loved hearing about the Elves, he had never met one.
[21:52] least he wouldn't turn on u
[21:52] I like Boromir. He is human. He was good at heart.
[21:53] Boromir was influenced by the Ring, so it is hard to determine his loyalty to the Ringbearer.
[21:53] I agree wonder, I would have Sam by my side any day. Borormir, was ok, but I would not trust him as much as Sam
[21:53] um, seemed like the trained for just soldier type
[21:53] The quest certainly changed them... Look at the difference when they returned to the Shire
[21:53] I wouldn't trust either of them
[21:53] I would say Sam, due to the fact that sam was reliable for the reason of love and friendship only, Boromir had other more sinister emotions behind his actions.
[21:53] not enough heart n solu
[21:53] Sam was a loyal servant, really.
[21:53] soul, soz
[21:54] yeah he was loyal
[21:54] Boromir had other resposabilities
[21:54] Boromir was a servent, too, in a way, all he wanted was to help Minas Tirith. And then he got addicted to the Ring.
[21:54] Had Sam not made the promise to Gandalf, would he have gone with Frodo to the end?
[21:54] yes, Nell I think he would
[21:54] Yes
[21:54] anyone know much about the new dvd, will it have the elven encounter at the beginning
[21:54] yeah
[21:54] I think he would have. And in the book he didn't make the promise to Gandalf particularly, did he?
[21:55] * Elven_Archer has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
[21:55] It was his love of Frodo more than a promice
[21:55] yes, he did promise Gandalf
[21:55] Several times he mentions his promise, why is it so important? He doesn't say I will see this through because you are my friend.
[21:55] I think he did make the promise to G specifically though
[21:55] * Elven_Archer has joined #bilbos-study
[21:55] * Barliman sets mode: +v Elven_Archer
[21:55] wb Elven
[21:55] taz, i'll b back l8r
[21:55] i agree Val, Frodo was like a father to sam, and he would have done anything for him
[21:55] * wonder has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
[21:56] yeah
[21:56] oh, silly me...but I think that his devotion to Frodo would have something to do with him keeping on going
[21:56] could be yeah
[21:56] * Socks is now known as Taz
[21:57] maybe
[21:57] Samwise, there is no doubt that the anti-quest would have most certainly failed if it had not been for Sam's devotion to Frodo.
[21:57] He didn't want to be turned into a newt
[21:57] yes
[21:57] heh heh
[21:57] perhaps that too, Grondy.
[21:57] His promice to Gandalf was done in fear of being turned into a frog. If it was jusst a promice he'd have left once Gandalf had been killed
[21:57] That is an interesting point Val
[21:58] hhhmmmm, I had not thought of that Val.
[21:58] Gandalf was killed
[21:58] I also got the sense that Sam was doing it partly for the sake of all ME and not just because of Frodo
[21:58] you could be right. In the beginning he was rather scared of Gandalf
[21:58] Sam would have thought so
[21:58] And besides that adventuring was more fun than hoeing weeds
[21:58] yeah
[21:58] But Sam had such little knowledge of ME, Samwise.
[21:59] I don't think Sam thought taht way though. (about the adventuring)
[21:59] I don't think Sam really like the thought of an adventure at all.
[21:59] he did, but he also had common sense. he knew it in his heart. and he'd been told that a hundred times.
[21:59] right, I got to go, good to see so much intelligent converse for once. Hope to make it longer sometime soon. Bye peeps.
[21:59] * plasticsquirrel has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
[21:59] I think at the start he was doing it just for Frodo, but later when he realized how important the quest was he kept going for the good of ME
[21:59] bye plasticsquirrel
[21:59] I agree with you Mellie
[21:59] Sam was a stereotype Hobbit, probably the only one amongst the main characters.
[22:00] that was what I was clumsly trying to say before
[22:00] bye Plastic
[22:00] He believed Frodo dead too, but carried on with the quest
[22:00] he was?
[22:00] could you give examples of what you mean by steryoptype, Rednell?
[22:01] I think why he carried on the quest was because he knew that the whole of ME was more important than Frodo
[22:01] Read the assignment
[22:01] Those without the adventurous spirit
[22:02] liked the nature, content with the way things were, didn't like any type of distrubance, inclined to fat and in no hurry....
[22:02] Sorry, that wasn't meant for you EA
[22:02] I think he was a steryotype for the traditional lower class citzen in Tolkien's time
[22:02] The only thing that was different was that he loved his reading lessons from Bilbo
[22:02] sterotype are those that are only concerned with their own little area, of the world,and don't like change
[22:03] that is true. where do you think Merry and Pippin fit in with all this?
[22:03] * mneptok has joined #bilbos-study
[22:03] * Barliman sets mode: +v mneptok
[22:03] I don't think Sam did like change until after the adventure began. He wanted to return right after the Ring was delivered to Rivendell.
[22:03] hello mneptok!
[22:03] thanke, Meester Butterbur
[22:04] Sam thought too less about himself to be stereotype
[22:04] Hie mneptok
[22:04] ahoyhoy
[22:04] that's a good point orange
[22:04] Most Hobbits didn't put on aires.
[22:04] no they don't. that's one of the things I like about them.
[22:04] * mneptok points at the Sackville-Bagginseseseses
[22:04] ...just the Sackville-Baggins mostly
[22:04] Lobelia seems unique on that one
[22:05] that's why no one likes them
[22:05] very young hobbits, that are tired of the same old way of life and just wanna do something fun in the beginning, as the story progresses, they realize how dangerous it is and then they want to protect Frodo, later they get an adventurous spirit and go on for other reasons
[22:05] heh heh
[22:05] { No Actions Please People }
[22:05] I agree, Mellie, you are really smart
[22:05] Pippin and Merry were very young and in the whole affair for the lark.
[22:05] * mneptok goes blind
[22:05] { mneptok No Actions Please }
[22:05] brb
[22:06] *blink*
[22:06] "no actions?" why?
[22:06] Soz mneptok, he is logging the chat for our site and doesn't like actions in the logs :o) One of our rules ;op
[22:06] It distracts from the class
[22:06] "class?"
[22:06] actions take away from the conversation.
[22:06] not if they contain informative stuff
[22:07] I think Merry and Pippin were unique hobbits in that resepct.
[22:07] This is a class.
[22:07] Sometimes it moves too fast and actions are just another thing to keep track of
[22:07] They were certaily unique when they returned to the shire
[22:08] I think all the hobbits were
[22:08] They went away as young hobbits and returned as leaders
[22:08] Merry and Pippin remind me of perhaps young soldiers who were sent to the front and came back all grown up.
[22:08] that they did, even Sam.
[22:08] Good one Red
[22:08] yep
[22:08] Únótimë ëar light, IRC channel valimar oialë. Rámar nainië, luini actions yaimië círa, sí CTCP súrinen lumbor oromardi métim' amortala yéni hísië atalantië ahosta man. Hlaruva mornë channel andúnë ilcalannar imbë class i altariello yulma man miruvóreva rúcina undumë wilwarin lassi axor miruvóreva light miruvóreva, imbë cenuva círa cenuva.
[22:09] but Frodo I think didn't think he'd changed.
[22:09] what mneptok?
[22:09] M and P were fallohides and were destined to be the leaders of their respective families.
[22:09] Frodo didn't change in the same way as the others.
[22:09] He was badly injured twice and had the strain of the ring
[22:09] he became more pure, not more of a leader
[22:10] I think the ordeal was almost too much for him
[22:10] He already knew the dangers he was about to face before he set out to destroy the Ring.
[22:10] Rednell: Oialë, pella sí ëar míri tier, fairi rúma ve máryat, vanwa elyë?
[22:10] he was tired, for the others it was as though they had just woken up and realized what they could do
[22:10] Good analogy Sam
[22:11] Very good Samwise.
[22:11] thnks...compare the last line of 'Many Partings'...'to me it's more like falling asleep again'...
[22:13] There certainly wasn't much left in Frodo by the time they got back and saw what happened to the Shire.
[22:13] * Elven_Archer has quit IRC (Ping timeout)
[22:14] His fight was drained from him. He really needed the strength of Merry, Pippin and Sam.
[22:14] Well he had left the Shire to protect it and saw that he had failed in that aspect.
[22:14] It was Merry and Pippin's day
[22:14] that was the vestigal weight of the Ring slowly dissapating
[22:14] okay this is just an idea...but when Frodo was in the house of Elrond Gandalf said 'he may become like a glass full of clear light for eyes to see that can' and later Sam says 'but he's like that, and sometimes it shines through somehow'. I think Frodo being stabbed was like the moment he became pure. If you get my drift.
[22:15] good points mneptok and Grond
[22:15] one cannot attach oneself to The Machine as Frodo did and not be drained by it, even after its destruction
[22:15] that's why all the Ringbearers evetually left for Valinor.
[22:15] +n
[22:15] He'd had it a long time
[22:16] rebooting
[22:16] Bilbo had it longer and used it more.
[22:20] It was only his spirit in the ring that anchored him to the world after his body was destroyed
[22:20] * Barliman sets mode: +v Barliman
[22:20] Samwisegamgee: the point was that if Isildur had destroyed the ring at Orodruin at the end of the Great War Sauron would have ceased to exist
[22:20] * socks has joined #bilbos-study
[22:20] * Barliman sets mode: +v socks
[22:21] * Samwisegamgee has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
[22:21] * Samwisegamgee has joined #bilbos-study
[22:21] * Barliman sets mode: +v Samwisegamgee
[22:21] Let's go back to the hobbits
[22:22] Hlápula acúna ambonnar undumë fanyarë métima enquantuva lissë light rácina, man fánë man ëar ilyë the man. Raumo, met círa oiolossëo ar cenuva maiwi ve tellumar fánë sí cirya, métim' i lóriendessë ná elyë. BBL.
[22:22] Gollum already proved that a Hobbit was not necessarily the safest place for the Ring.
[22:22] * socks is now known as Taz
[22:22] * mneptok has left #bilbos-study
[22:22] I got kicked off again...okay, back to hobbits. That is a good point Rednell.
[22:22] * Samwisegamgee has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
[22:22] -ChanServ:@#Bilbos-Study- (Ops:#Bilbos-Study) Taz added op socks(5)
[22:22] * Samwisegamgee has joined #bilbos-study
[22:22] * Barliman sets mode: +v Samwisegamgee
[22:23] do you think Bilbo and Frodo could have become like Gollum?
[22:23] Perhaps, Gollum had the Ring for a very long time.
[22:23] Given time they'd have become ghoulish
[22:23] Gollum was already greedy, wasn't he?
[22:24] yes, unlike even Stoorish Hobbits, actually.
[22:24] I don't think so.
[22:24] yes, and Frodo and Bilbo weren't. So perhaps it would have taken them longer to become 'ghoulish'.
[22:24] I think once they exceeded their natural life span, they'd have changed
[22:24] Who say's Gollum was originally greedy sorry?
[22:24] Well, I correct myself. Gollum wasn't greedy, he was just over-curious. Grondy said he was greedy Taz
[22:24] Grondy said he was.
[22:24] He killed his cousin to get the ring
[22:25] That does not make him greedy unless I am mistaken.
[22:25] Once again the ring was the cause.
[22:25] Therefor we can have no judgement.
[22:25] In my opinion anyway.
[22:25] That is an interesting point, actually.
[22:25] Very fast acting influence of the ring?
[22:25] Why not?
[22:25] We have seen how fast the Ring can act.
[22:26] But why did it choose Smeagol over Deagol?
[22:26] Ahhh, now that is interesting!
[22:26] Deagol was weaker.
[22:26] there was less of him to corrrupt.
[22:26] Maybe random, fate or sams point.
[22:26] Thats why it would have suited him better
[22:26] or maybe just 'cause Tolkien had to choose someone and Gollum sounded a cooler name ;p
[22:27] Maybe the test the Ring gave them was to see who would kill for it?
[22:27] thnx bye
[22:27] * Dagaz has left #bilbos-study
[22:27] Nell: Very interesting point.
[22:27] what do you think would've happended if it was Deagol? then Frodo wouldn't get the Ring and wouldn't be destroyred...fate is a good hyopothesis Taz
[22:27] I go with Nell's last thought.
[22:28] it seems to be the way through the whole book, other than circumstance.
[22:28] Sam, I don't think it would have mattered which Hobbit it was, Smeagol or Deagol, the end result would have been the same at that point.
[22:28] would Deagol have gone into the Misty Mountains do you think?
[22:28] heh
[22:28] In any case the Ring seemed to have begun in the hands of a Hobbit and ended in the hands of a Hobbit.
[22:28] How long is a peice of string ;p
[22:29] I think that whole part of the story was to make you see what Gollum's nature was like
[22:29] that's interesting Rednell. And Val. You do sympathize with Gollum by the end. sort of.
[22:29] Not the typical Hobbit nature, although we don't know a lot about the nature of the Stoors.
[22:29] Please remind me, in the book does it mentions Sam inability to swim?
[22:29] i think Tolkien wanted to show how rotten Gollum was - killing his best friend-
[22:29] We only know of them by their name, not their natures until they found the ring and then they were changed
[22:30] ...except they were wilder
[22:30] * Mellie has quit IRC (Ping timeout)
[22:30] I think it mentions he 's afriad of boats because he can't swim Taz.
[22:30] thx sam
[22:30] In the book, I think it mentions Sam fear of water, Taz.
[22:30] General Hobbit thing... Only the Fallowhides liked boats
[22:30] Hm ic, just I don't remember Frodo pulling sam out of the water when he attempts to swim to him.
[22:30] yes, Val
[22:31] you're welcome...how much of a friend to you think Golllum considered Deogol to be?
[22:31] be right back...
[22:31] * Samwisegamgee has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
[22:31] lol - Well I wouldn't want to be one of Gollums so called 'friends' put it that way :p
[22:31] Saying that though, we all seem to get stabbed in the back anyway these day's.
[22:31] How Tolkien's books relate to life :o)
[22:31] * orange has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
[22:32] Woah, I got to depressive for everyone there. /me takes a happy pill.
[22:32] Everyones going.... I think the bell's rang
[22:32] Well we made a *good* hour!
[22:32] Tolkien's books do relate to life. And on that note, Class dismissed.
Wow, it seems like I missed a lot. Wish I could have been there longer. Next week I will be. I enjoyed the little bit that I did get to participate in.
Well, I made the effort and found a spare hour, and spent all of it getting in and out of the room. Hopefully I'll make it for the whole thing next time, it seems I missed a lot of good stuff.
Well done, Rednell. You guided us through that really well.

Sit down and stop disturbing the class, Plastic Smile Smilie
Seems to be the story of my life Val...
Great job Rednell! Wish I could be there... Very Sad Smilie
These classes are fun!
Glad you like them Wooffy_Elendil.