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Thread: Post of the Whenever, June24th

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GrevBukMcJern posted the following in the Fans Over Forty thread in the Prancing Pony.

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Not that I would miss them so much, but... why this deleting urge?

Are they doing any harm?

Will people suddenly start posting interesting stuff once the games has gone?

It seems a lot of people think that if you remove the foolish things from this site, it will become a good and interesting site. I'm not so optimistic- I think it's quite likely we'll end up with a dead site.

If we want serious and deep discussions on interesting topics we need to allow people to become emotional. Why? Because what interests us is important to us! We need to allow opinions. And clashes of opinions. Then the participants in the discussions need to be mature enough to differenciate between criticism of opinions/sources/interpretations and personal attacs, which sadly seem to be a point of confusion for some. When someone is unable to keep the discussion in a timely manner they should be removed from the discussion, not the discussion removed from the forum.

Now we close down the topics where the discussions has become heated. Why did it become heated? Because it was important to people! They took a deep interest in the topic. Deep personal interest WILL create friction between different views. This lead to interesting and fruitful discussions that can lead to much greater understanding and depth to a subject. If the discussion is kept in a mature and civilized manner! Friction between views is good, friction between people is bad.

If we want interesting discussions we need to stop banning all topics that create interest, and instead allow the discussions, but be firm on how the discussions are held. When someone instead of attacking the other parts arguments start attacking his/hers person, or otherwise ruins the constructive mood of the discussion, the culprit should in no uncertain terms be told to cool down or get lost. Now we are basically telling everybody to get lost...


When I first read this post I was very impressed because it seemed topical with some of the recent discussions the Council had been having. Post of the Week was originally conceived as a way of encouraging interesting posts and thus developing discussions. It seems, then, quite topical to award a POW to a post concerning itself with developing discussions. What is nice, is what has developed in that thread since I first proposed this post to the other Council Members. A very good, but calm discussion has developed from the seeds of this post. In a way some of the following posts are even better than this one, but as it was this post which instigated the whole discussion, it is this one that deserves the award.

I do not agree with all that Grev says in this post, particularly the parts about removing people from discussions or telling them to get lost, but most of these points have now been discussed in length, and I believe everyone concerned is now the wiser for having joined in that discussion (still ongoing, by the way).

Although, like I said, I do not agree with some of the points mentioned, the main crux of the post is very valid. I think in a PM to someone recently, I too identified that the best discussions are those involving people who believe passionately in something. It is that passion which gives the writer the fuel to research and develop their argument. It is that same passion, however, that can cause a few problems now and again. In such discussions, participants must remember not to personally attack those of differing opinions. Maybe it is a good place here to add, should you feel a discussion involving yourself is becoming heated, just step back for a while before it simmers over. You can use that time to check your references, ensure your argument is valid etc, before going back with a stronger but less personal response. It may be difficult at times to do so, but we are all friends here, and are here because of our love for Tolkien and his works.

As a last note, I'd encourage anyone who has found Grev's post interesting to go the Fans over Forty thread (about page 4 or 5 I think) and have a read at the discussion which developed from it. The theme is not exactly Tolkien, but it is definetly site related, and everyone's input is welcome.
Well done Grev, some body else has finally said what I've been saying for ages. Let's face it people come on here to debate and discuss. People are not going to get along with everyone. I know I annoy the heck out of people as there are people who annoy the heck out of me. Do I care that They annoy me and that I may annoy them, do I arse. The problem is people see the family friendly and think they can't argue any more for fear of making some one cry or something lame like that. Now i' m sorry, but if you are old ennough to be messing about on the internet, then you are old ennough to be offended if somebody tells you they think you are wrong. Way to go Grev.

Also way to go Val for changing the name to Post of the Whenever.
Also Way to go me for not once using any Star riddled words.
Shocked Smilie




Orc Going Huh Smilie



Elf Confused Smilie


Big Smile Smilie Big Smile Smilie Big Smile Smilie Big Smile Smilie Big Smile Smilie

Wow! Now that was unexpected! Big Smile Smilie Me winning the post of the wee... whenever? *looks out window to see if sky is on its way down. Hmm.. No. Strange*

This site must really have deteriorated for me to qualify for this! Tongue Smilie But thanks anyway! Big Smile Smilie

Quote:
Although, like I said, I do not agree with some of the points mentioned

Neither do I anymore, not all of them. Your replies supplied more information, for me to get a more informed opinion. Which is what a good discussion should be about! I should perhaps clarify my "get lost" comment a bit: Obviously I have no wish to drive people away, but as Ross so diplomatically insinuate in the above post, there are people in the world that seem to be unable to accept that someone else disagree with them and invariably disembark on a quest to "prove" the infidels wrong, gladly destroying anything and anyone in their path. Those people should get lost, not only from this page but also rip out their internet connection and go live in a shell. Thank Eru we haven't had any of those here yet! Most of the time though, hotheads just need a bit of cooling and they are just fine. I would like cooling of individuals and not intire threads, but reopening locked threads after a short while is a big step in the desired direction. Smile Smilie

Quote:
but if you are old ennough to be messing about on the internet, then you are old ennough to be offended if somebody tells you they think you are wrong.
Or even better - old enough to not get offended. Never seen the point of getting offended..
Quote:
Also Way to go me for not once using any Star riddled words.

I have often seen stars in Ross' posts. Of the **** kind. Wink Smilie *lol*

Of course you have to deal with being told you are wrong, but there are different ways of telling folks that and there are different ways of reacting to it. I had a guy in my class who never ever admitted he was wrong. He said for instance that there were no kangaroos in Australia. We told him calmly that he probably misunderstood what the guy on TV had said, but he was to proud to admit he was wrong no matter what. To defend and stick to what you belive is admirable, to stick to something you know is wrong is just stupid. He didn't go it to annoy us either. He just couldn't admit he was wrong.
No ******* way Amarie cheers Big Smile Smilie
Conga rats RevGrevMcTev!

Post of the Wee...? Taking the pi....?
Atta-boy GrevBukMcJern. Deal Smilie

After both sides have presented their arguments and rebutals there comes a time when nothing more we can say will ever change the mind of our bull headed antagonist. At this point rather than trying to bite-off the head of our our stuborn opponent, we should just agree to disagree and go on to another topic.