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[url=http://www.2012dvd.com:3enmjk4a]2012: Science or Superstition[/url:3enmjk4a] will help you to discern the Mayan prophecy or we can say the Mayan traditions. It is a documentary film reflecting facts on science and superstitions based on Mayan traditions. Just go for it.
Cool, I'll definitely check it out. I have been interested ever since hearing Terence McKenna's theory on the subject.

[b:18q8j5l4]Gandalfs Beard[/b:18q8j5l4]
The world will not end.

But the world as we know it will.
That's a very McKenna-ish view Show :lol:

[b:3276r267]Gandalfs Beard[/b:3276r267]
Well. First off, this was not just the Mayan prophecy, the Aztects, Incas, and many other Pagans believed this, not just the Mayans. Something very odd about this is that all of the Planets will line up together. Something even more odd is that in the Bible it says that the Moon will turn to Blood. In 2012 their is going to be an Eclipse with the Sun, thus making the Moon almost seem to Turn into Blood, which signifies the coming of Jesus, thus, the end of the world. Another odd thing is that Nostradamus also Predicted the end of the world in 2012. Also, go figure, it is the year of Election, (dear God, not another 4 years of Obama. HAhaha
We can only hope that Obama will usher in a New Age of peace and prosperity in 2012 <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' /> . It'll probably take him a while to clean up the mess from the last 28 years.

But seriously--back to topic:
In any case the end of one era is also the beginning of a New Era. Apocolyptic fantasies are very unlikely to be fulfilled (I hope :lol: ). But if you're interested in the topic Durin, you should definitely check out Terence McKenna. He has an interesting take on the whole thing.

[b:3ktr6nt8]Gandalfs Beard[/b:3ktr6nt8]
Durin, will all the planets really line up? Remember that we just added two more.
[quote="Durin":14pq8c8v]Well. First off, this was not just the Mayan prophecy, the Aztects, Incas, and many other Pagans believed this, not just the Mayans. Something very odd about this is that all of the Planets will line up together. Something even more odd is that in the Bible it says that the Moon will turn to Blood. In 2012 their is going to be an Eclipse with the Sun, thus making the Moon almost seem to Turn into Blood, which signifies the coming of Jesus, thus, the end of the world. Another odd thing is that Nostradamus also Predicted the end of the world in 2012. Also, go figure, it is the year of Election, (dear God, not another 4 years of Obama. HAhaha[/quote:14pq8c8v]

This does seem to make sense, but it is impossible to discern the time of the coming of Christ. Even Christ doesn't know, only God does. And, btw, many predictions like this have been made in the past, only to be embarrassed.
Eclipses of the sun are regular as clockwork. Likewise, the notion that the planets (at least the ones counted before recently) line up with the Galactic Center once in a Blue (Red? :lol: ) Moon is interesting but regular. There is no scientific analysis that this is significant (Such as affecting tides, polar reversals or whatnot). Is there some Spiritual Significance? Even that is pure speculation. It is vastly entertaining to consider, but we really shouldn't make too much of it.

[b:2jceohqu]Gandalfs Beard[/b:2jceohqu]
[quote="Beren":24oo0p26][quote="Durin":24oo0p26]Well. First off, this was not just the Mayan prophecy, the Aztects, Incas, and many other Pagans believed this, not just the Mayans. Something very odd about this is that all of the Planets will line up together. Something even more odd is that in the Bible it says that the Moon will turn to Blood. In 2012 their is going to be an Eclipse with the Sun, thus making the Moon almost seem to Turn into Blood, which signifies the coming of Jesus, thus, the end of the world. Another odd thing is that Nostradamus also Predicted the end of the world in 2012. Also, go figure, it is the year of Election, (dear God, not another 4 years of Obama. HAhaha[/quote:24oo0p26]

This does seem to make sense, but it is impossible to discern the time of the coming of Christ. Even Christ doesn't know, only God does. And, btw, many predictions like this have been made in the past, only to be embarrassed.[/quote:24oo0p26]

Actually, you can discern the Coming of Christ, we just need to look at the signs carefully. Although, these signs may lead us to a different assumption onto when he is coming. Yet, we know the Beast will reign for 3 and a half years, yet we know not when he will, or if Christians will be in Heaven or not. Quite Frankly, I think they will be taken to heaven before all of this happens, because in Revelation it says "I will come as a Robber in the Night" (this is Jesus speaking). And this means we will not know when. And, I mean really, I think we will know when a 10 Horned Beast looking like a Leopard comes out of the Ocean and rules the world for 3 and a half years, so I mean, come on <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' /> .

Anyway, another interesting thing is that The Mayan calender actually Ends in 2012, which is, to most people, an odd concept. But Behold! the Mayans used an Anicient Stone Table to Tell Time and Dates, and they Worshiped the Sun. They Turned the Table every day, and some how, I do not know the Details, they discerned the Planets would line up, and the Sun will be the Center of the galaxy, and they condsidered this to be amazing, which it is. They Calculated this date to be 2012, thus ending their calender. Go Figure, today, thousands of years later, we found that when the planets a-line, the Sun will be the Center of our Solar System. The Mayans were Astronomers, some of the best of their time and they found out about this when no Telescopes were in use, this is quite Amazing I would say, but no Apocolyptic. I think everyone can agree that the Mayans were indeed, Pagans. I am sorry if someone here worships the Sun, I would be incredibly surprised <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' /> . So, I do not find this Legend to be anything close to the End of the World, but rather just a Astronomic wonder we have not seen in many-a-year.

[quote="Gandalfs Beard":24oo0p26]Eclipses of the sun are regular as clockwork. Likewise, the notion that the planets (at least the ones counted before recently) line up with the Galactic Center once in a Blue (Red? :lol: ) Moon is interesting but regular. There is no scientific analysis that this is significant (Such as affecting tides, polar reversals or whatnot). Is there some Spiritual Significance? Even that is pure speculation. It is vastly entertaining to consider, but we really shouldn't make too much of it.

[b:24oo0p26]Gandalfs Beard[/b:24oo0p26][/quote:24oo0p26]

Yes, These Eclipses do happen often, but never at the Same time as all of the planets have aligned too.

Best Wishes,

Durin
I suppose my point was that we can't determine when all the book of Revelation is going to be set in motion. The disciples thought that it was, at longest, months away when Jesus ascended. Now, 2000 years later, it still hasn't happened. But you can't deny one thing: it's getting closer. (And I can't wait <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' /> )
Well, I personally would say some time in the next ten or twenty years. Daniel (I think it was Daniel) said that just before the end there will be a great increase in knowledge and population of the world- look at the last hundred years. Also, the US is mentioned as a world power(not by name but by description) in prophecies of end time, but China is not. If America keeps going in the direction it is, China will rule the world within the next fifty years. This is not predicted, so we can assume that the world will end well before that.
Also, the Armageddon (the battle between religions) is building up with the tension in the Middle East and the Palestinian Israeli war.
Matthew- As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the time of the end. Look at society today, and you will see the violence, selfishness, tolerance of sodomy, apathy, vice, immorality and confusion that there was before the flood. Not long now.
Something that I thought was really cool when I heard about it was the whole symbolic thing with the seven days of creation. The first six days were days of labour, and the seventh day a day of rest. Theologians have traced Biblical genealogy back to about four thousand BC as the creation of the world. Six thousand years. In Revelation, John sees the Christians being taken up to live in heaven for a thousand years before moving back to the new Jerusalem. And in the old testament somewhere, a day is said to be as a thousand years, and a thousand years as a day. That means the six days of labour are up. Soon it will be time for the day of rest. And then an eternity on a new, perfect world.
There are other signs. Natural disasters are far more rampant now than they have ever been. Wars and rumors of wars fill the newspapers. Society is ripe to accept Satan, disguised as Christ, and eat up the deception, even the very elect.
The second coming is soon. We can't know when, all we can do is prepare, and try and save as many as we can.

P.S. Whoever it was who mentioned a seven-horned leopard, the beast is [i:scfaym12]symoblic.[/i:scfaym12] Just like Alexander the Great is a three horned goat, the beast will probably be a world religious leader, not a ravening creature. Actually, that's another sign that the end is nigh. Technology has reached a point that a leader will be able to impose a mark, possibly electronic, onto all his followers, something that would have been ludicrous a hundred years ago. The number 666 may be a code used to activate the chip or whatever. I don't know. But we'll see soon enough.
I agree that it is soon, but remember: people have predicted that it is "soon" (as in: within a few years) for a long time. Also remember: there have been wars for all time. I believe that if we lived during WWI or WWII, we would think that those were the "wars." But now, over half a century later, nothing has happened.
I believe that the natural disasters may NOT be more prevalent now than they ever were. Think about it: if a Tsunami in Asia, and an earthquake in China, etc. happened a thousand years ago, we wouldn't have heard of them. But now, the world is connected, and we all know about world events mere hours after they happen. So now, we know about ALL the natural disasters in the world, not just our local ones. This creates the illusion of there being more of them.
Also: immorality and sin, corruption and greed, etc. have been around forever. Again, it may seem like more now because we hear about more. This is because of the media and increased attention being drawn to these things.
I'm not saying that everything you said is wrong, I'm just saying that we need to look at things in perspective.
I will have to side with Beren on this one. Remember that earthquakes, fires, and volcano's happen. The only addition I'll put on what Beren said with that is now there are also an awful lot more people. An earthquake today that kills a thousand people might only have killed a hundred in the past. When you get the population density in places like we do today, the potential for any disaster is magnified. Add that to modern civilization's [i:2btagetu]Titanic[/i:2btagetu] attitude that makes our actions in the wake of tradgedy much more useless.

As for sin and immorality, remember there are no new crimes. There may be new methods, but the crimes are the same. Even with the internet. Ah, the interent. Surely one of the greatest and one of the worst things ever created.

One last thing to add to Beren's post, WWI was called the Great War. I believe [i:2btagetu](correct me if I'm wrong) [/i:2btagetu]that the thought was at the time that this would be the war to end all wars. Further I think they thought the same thing in WWII.
Remember Y2K and the Millennium Fever. Prophets have been predicting doom for thousands of years. Some have been very specific with dates. And yet here we still are. What is the next date going to be when we find ourselves (mostly) still here in 2013? <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' />

It's about time we stopped taking prophecies literally and started looking at ways to move beyond our apocalyptic fantasies. Some years ago I saw a Time magazine cover with dead Africans strewn across the page the caption reading "the Apocolypse is here." What if a Seer several thousand years ago actually saw that cover in a vision? I've had dreams wherein certain things about the future were revealed, yet the future remained in flux.

We have been living in "Apocalyptic Times" since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution. Suffering and appalling conditions have been the lot of most of humanity since the beginning of Colonialism. And has grown a thousandfold with Corporate Neo-Feudal Globalism. The power to stop the rape and pillage of the planet and it's peoples are in our own hands. We cannot wait for a mythical Saviour to arrive and set things right. Benjamin Creme keeps pushing back the date for the Maitreya (Jesus), who he claims is walking among us right now, to reveal himself. But We are the Ones We Have Been Waiting For.

We have been waiting for the shift of energy from our lower chakras to move into our heart chakras en masse. The Spirit of the Christos will then move us to do what we must to clean up the mess we have made and heal ourselves and the planet. I think this is what the prophecies reveal. The Four Horsemen have been wandering the planet with Western Faces since we brought disease and tyranny to the New World when Columbus first fell upon the shores of the Americas.

You want 666--Ronald Wilson Reagan--six letters in each name. That doesn't mean he was literally the devil, nor that he was totally evil. But he and Maggie Thatcher in recent years epitomized the "Let Them Eat Cake" Spirit that is at the Heart of the 500 year Apocalypse that is still ongoing.

Also, The Mark of the Beast has been around since Roman Times. Every slave who has been branded, every Jew that has been numbered, every person that has allowed Avarice into their soul and been enslaved by their addictions to Money is so marked, as has anyone who has ever been numbered in a census, or forced to carry identity papers. Again, let us not be so Literal that we miss these signs. The Apocalypse has been with us for hundreds of years and if I hold out any hope for 2012, it is that it will mark [b:2rska0dy]the ending of the Apocalypse and a New Beginning for Mankind.[/b:2rska0dy] I hope we finally grow up, get over it and get to work fixing things.

But I'm not going to hold my breath either :lol: .
P.S. If we get really lucky and do a good job redeeming ourselves maybe the Elves and Fairy Creatures will come back. <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> :mrgreen:
I suppose, being an Adventist, I am biased, as one of my baptismal vows is to prepare for the soon coming of the Lord.
Yeah, well there's nothing wrong with being prepared <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' /> . I don't know what's in the cards either way. But I still hold out hope for the future.

[b:wjmvn3a6]Gandalf's Beard[/b:wjmvn3a6]
I have a great book of essays on 2012 collected by Sounds True. It has a HUGE range of well written hypotheses and propositions. Its [u:195mqevv]The Mystery of 2012[/u:195mqevv].

All i cant stop thinking is that 2012 is when Palin is projected to run for preident... *shudders*
Sorry to bring this thread back up, but this just might close it <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' /> . My friends and I had this debate, then someone just popped in and said the Roman Calendar, the one we use now, is Four years ahead of the Mayan calendar, which means this all would have happened by now. :oops:
[quote="Gandalf's Beard":1jl5ri85]We have been living in "Apocalyptic Times" since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution. Suffering and appalling conditions have been the lot of most of humanity since the beginning of Colonialism. And has grown a thousandfold with Corporate Neo-Feudal Globalism. The power to stop the rape and pillage of the planet and it's peoples are in our own hands. We cannot wait for a mythical Saviour to arrive and set things right. Benjamin Creme keeps pushing back the date for the Maitreya (Jesus), who he claims is walking among us right now, to reveal himself. But We are the Ones We Have Been Waiting For.[/quote:1jl5ri85]

While I personally await and anticipate my Savior's coming, I must agree with you when you say that the people of this Earth need to start making choices and actions to help our planet. I believe there are other powers in this world that may affect everyday life, but that does not mean God will simply do everything for us.
However, man is not perfect, and while we may tell ourselves that we have everything under control, we don't. Only One is perfect, and he does not dwell among us here on Earth.
Our main job here on Earth is to prepare for his coming, and, with his wisdom, strength and guidance, save whomever we can.

As far as the claim of the world's end already happening Light in the Dark, it would not surprise me in the least if this prophecy took it's place along with all the others whom have been long-looked for and have passed without change or notice.
Sorry everyone!
When I wrote the quote of Gandalf's Beard I meant to post it as 'When Gandalf's Beard wrote: ......'
Unfortunately I have not figured out just yet how to express everything how I want it. :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:
I'm learning though! :|
Hehe, I see that Astar. I also see you have not seen the joys of using the Edit button as well! :lol: . No worries, I always have that problem as well, just saves some space from using two seperate posts.
We mods can always edit stuff for you guys, too. Like I just did <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> .
THANK YOU BEREN!!!!! <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' /> <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' /> <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' />
Ain't Modding grand 8-) :lol: .

Lord knows Astar, our planet could sure use a Saviour. But as we can never really be sure that one will arrive in time, I am glad we agree that we should do our best to emulate the best of our various religion's values and Saviours and be stewards of the Earth. It's what Tolkien and CS Lewis would have wanted. they both hated how humans pillaged the planet and it's resources in the name of "progress".

We can't put technology back in the bottle (or bag, depending on your fave analogy <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> , but we can try to put the brakes on the most polluting sources of energy and use more sustainable forms of technology. What's lacking the most, is the political/economic will to change by the World's Ruling Classes. It really is up to the populace (us) to keep up the pressure on the more democratic aspects of Governments to reign in, and control the excesses of both Corporate control and Emerging Industrial States.

And also for those of us in Consumer Societies to try to wean ourselves from our "addictions" to Mass Produced Products, such as my own unfortunate Meat Addiction. Though I'm not saying we should necessarily all become vegetarians, just learn to live with less meat from better treated animals and land.

[b:30g8jg69]GB[/b:30g8jg69]
[quote="Beren":2cq2f5b0]The disciples thought that it was, at longest, months away when Jesus ascended. Now, 2000 years later, it still hasn't happened.[/quote:2cq2f5b0]

In there defence, Jesus did (supposedly) say that "This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled" ([url=http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/24.html#34:2cq2f5b0]Matthew 24:34[/url:2cq2f5b0]). So you can hardly blame them for getting excited. :P
As for 2012 and the Mayan prophecy, it is my *firm* belief that on December 21, 2012 A.D. the planets will come into line, there will be a solar eclipse, and a solar flare all at the same time. The moon will shatter because of this, the planets wobble, and the Dark Lord Morgoth shall re-enter Arda. Then Sauron, the Balrogs, and the Ringwraiths shall all return stronger than ever and do battle with the Valar upon the Plains of Valinor till the world is destroyed and the dead return from the Timeless Halls to build the world anew.

</sarcasm>

But seriously, is there any more evidence for the serious conspiracy theorists than my little joke? If there is I've yet to see it. In the meantime, if I want to be worried about something, there are plenty of documented threats out there, unfortunately, which sort of goes back to what [b:1nbxy1mg]GB[/b:1nbxy1mg] was saying. Alas, I don't think there is a supernatural Saviour who will come to fix all our problems, nice as that would be.

Cheesy as this sounds, we (humanity) really don't have much of a choice but to work together. We have amazing resources and technology at our disposal, yet the states of the world manage to squabble like young children of a disturbingly regular basis. If we don't address serious problems - pollution, climate change, resource depletion, disease, etc., etc. - we will like be in for a crazy time starting within the next century or two. How to get people to start cooperating is utterly beyond me though. :?

That's my two cents at any rate. :geek:
Hello All,

I know I'm late for this party (fashionably, I hope), but I just gotta say, all this prophesyzing (?) about the end of the world gets on my goat. No one has got it right yet - like some folk have already pointed out on this thread.

It seems to me, if you're a Christian, please take note of Jesus saying that God will come unexpectedly - and more unexpectedly even than a dozen and one dwarves banging on your door - with or without lanterns. Christians who dare predict The Time and The Day surely have stepped off a certain narrow road me thinks.

As to you Agnostic type people (and Atheists - though apparently it's a bit rude to mention you on this site - your kind being unsavoury types apparently - Southrons maybe?)... where was I?

Oh yes, as to you Agnostics, I might remind you that we human beings will keep on prospering (technologically at least)(and with much ebbing and flowing and upping and downing) until Meteors, or New Ice Ages, or our Grosser Stupidities (which might include not believing in 'God' - who can really say?) catch up with us.

People are just guessing.

Reading the signs (and/or stars)? Checking out ancient prophecies? Punching in a heap of unrelated statistics into computers? Picking seven different unrelated texts from seven different parts of the Bible (or other religious texts - to be fair!) and showing them as proof that the dreams you've been having lately were not a direct effect of too much alcohol, drugs or plain lack of sleep...? Need I go on?

I agree with the folks who say we have to better manage what we do on Earth. Yes, that includes being nice to each other. But let's give over with this "Oh I know just when it's all gonna end - it was in me tea-leaves. Honest to God!" If we try to be good then maybe God and his Angels will be nice when God makes his move. If everything ends by some other cause - well, RIP I say!

This doesn't mean I think we should be Grossly Stupid all the time. Do you realize if we Humans destroy the Earth, then Middle Earth won't exist anymore either - and that would be the real tragedy - I mean Tolkien spent most of his life binging it to us - let's show some respect!

My goodness, what do they teach in schools nowadays??

Regards,
Odo
Atheists are welcome at this party too Odo <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> . And with Lanterns , but we do check Pitchforks and flaming Torches at the door :lol: .

And Goodness. there have been an awful lot of Prophecies of the end of the world come and gone. The last one was in 2000, yet we're still kicking down the road. Mostly I get a kick out of them though. I find them very entertaining.

And I have a soft spot for the Mayan one due to Terrence McKenna (the Mushroom's Timothy Leary) and his Time Wave Zero (google it, and McKenna). He didn't believe in The End of the World, but he was very open to the possibility of some sort of Great Attractor bang in the Timeline, which might cause a Paradigm Shift.

And Paradigm Shifts can look like the end of the world to some people. But endings are also beginnings, which End of the Worlders occasionally forget.

[b:nbofgkci]GB[/b:nbofgkci]
Oh B you are a wag! What with all your Paradigm Shifts and Down Home Humour. Next you'll be going all 'Existentialist' on us... My gosh I hope I spelled that right. If one is to be humourous in a witty urbane intellectual Oscar Wild kind-of-way, one must spell his big words correctly or become a buffoon!

Maybe I was wrong. What if every prophet of doom has been right? Maybe the Universe gets destroyed every time? Maybe God just keeps rebooting the Universe Computer every time and we just haven't noticed! It could happen in a millisecond! When the electricity at work stops for any reason, the generator kicks in almost immediately! (I'm really getting out of my depth with this, aren't I - and now I must stop.)

...But hey. Maybe Earth doesn't actually exist at all. Could we just be another part of T's invented universe? (Some folk confuse him for God, I feel - and what if they're right!!?)


Regards,
Odo

NB I had a dream last night. A huge tree got ripped out of the ground by some unknown force and flung 50 metres (73 yards) into a paddock (field). I'm not actually joking (except about the distance the tree was flung - I only guess that part; the dream did not come with a tape measure). Does anyone interpret dreams on this site?

NBB GB I returned your e-mail. Sorry for the delay. As you're probably well aware by now, I am a fool when it comes to technology.
Well, the whole "Cosmic Reboot" thing is cyclical and very Pagan or Hindu. And modern Cosmologists are coming around to the notion that even if it does all end in a Big Crunch or Big Dissipation, there will likely be a new Big Bang.

[b:1m06gkfc]GB[/b:1m06gkfc]
GB,

I concede you know your stuff too much on these kinds of things. I therefore withdraw from the floor and retreat from this discussion. See you on another thread, soon, maybe...

Regards,
Odo
Please don't depart on my account Odo :? . I thought your point about being figments of Tolkien's imagination provocative and illuminating :ugeek: .

And I love your imagery of the "Cosmic Reboot".

GB
Oh Good-Old Great-Hearted GB,

You've been an utter gentleman from the very first day I met you!

I'm just retreating because I'm running out of ideas to throw at you at the moment. Also, all the big words we're using do tire one out so (and yet, your use of them seems so effortless!) Alas! I'm not a young man anymore...

Regards,
Odo
I know what you mean Odo. I probably ought to just go to sleep and give you a chance to explore other bits of the forum :lol: .

[b:1nj4bwkz]GB[/b:1nj4bwkz]
GB,

Thank you.

Hi ho hi ho it's off to post I go...

Regards
Odo