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Please not Rickman! He is a ham actor- watch his turn as the Sheriff of Nottingham- he can only do pantomine villians, Smaug is much more than that. (And he killed stone dead the characater of Marvin in Hitchhikers). Sir Ian would be a better choice if he can find a voice distinct enough from Gandalfs. I'm not sure he can, great actor as he is his voice is quite recognizable and he tends to sound much the same in everything I have seen him in. Jeremy Brett would have been good, a tragic loss. In my hunt for the McKellan Macbeth I stumbled across Brett playing Macbeth- in what appears to be a cross production with a US company or tv station. Sadly its awful in terms of production and most of the cast, but as you would expect Brett is the outstanding light in it and makes a good Macbeth- tragic this appears to be his only performance as such left for prosperity. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCCTNDwILpM
[quote="pettytyrant101":1k75zw8o]Please not Rickman! He is a ham actor- watch his turn as the Sheriff of Nottingham- he can only do pantomine villians, Smaug is much more than that. (And he killed stone dead the characater of Marvin in Hitchhikers). Sir Ian would be a better choice if he can find a voice distinct enough from Gandalfs. I'm not sure he can, great actor as he is his voice is quite recognizable and he tends to sound much the same in everything I have seen him in. Jeremy Brett would have been good, a tragic loss. In my hunt for the McKellan Macbeth I stumbled across Brett playing Macbeth- in what appears to be a cross production with a US company or tv station. Sadly its awful in terms of production and most of the cast, but as you would expect Brett is the outstanding light in it and makes a good Macbeth- tragic this appears to be his only performance as such left for prosperity. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCCTNDwILpM[/quote:1k75zw8o] Absolute Rubbish! :x Rickman SAVED that Robin Hood movie. He is not a "ham actor" by any stretch of the imagination (I think you are mistaking his incredible Presence that, make most other actors--especially American ones--pale in comparison, for "hamming it up"Wink Smilie. His villains are BRILLIANT. He's the perfect man for the part. Only Rickman can Sneer in Supercilious Serpentine Perfection. His honeyed voice drips with Sarcastic Wit. Perfect for the bored witty slippery Smaug. Britain is well known for it's many talented actors (as opposed to the US, which is mainly known for actors with the Whitest and Straightest Teeth :P ), and Rickman is up there with the best of the best of Britain's actors. At one point on this forum, he polled the strongest for the Voice of Smaug among our Denizens (though that's not the reason YOU should like him <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> ). There are some other contenders on my list, but Rickman is at the top. Brad Dourif (Wormtongue) would be my second choice, and I forget who would round out my top 5 contenders (i'll have to search my posts on this thread). I agree McKellen would be pretty cool in the part, but his voice is far too distinctive. Even in Villain Mode (the Prisoner "Update"Wink Smilie, one can always tell it's him. Still, he does have a great Supercilious Quality too. But his distinctiveness would immediately undermine the film, which is why he's OUT of the running. If Christopher Lee's voice wasn't also so well known to LotR watchers, he would have been on my list too. But again, he's OUT of the running for the same reason as McKellen. I think we would probably both agree that Sean Connery, having already been a rather simpery dragon, is OUT, despite possibly being a qualified contender. As for Jeremies, Jeremy Irons is ALIVE, and I think he would be another Top Choice. After seeing him in Underworld, I think Bill Nighy would also be brilliant in the part; he's got that slippery when wet villainous quality too. Still, when it comes to Slitheryness Rickman tops them all. [b:1k75zw8o]GB[/b:1k75zw8o]
Ah, Alan Rickman! An excellent suggestion if I may say so too <img src='/images/smileys/smile.gif' border='0' alt='Smile Smilie' /> However, if Petty's predictions regarding PJ and his take on talking animals come true, I guess Smaug won't be able to speak at all, which means we're having a rather pointless discussion <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' />
I like all of your suggestions GB! And John Rhys Davies was treebeard, all they did was alter his voice a bit. They could do the same with Sir Ian's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSUGp9Yz1sk Hammy, pantomine villain!! No! No! No for Smaug. The role deserves so much better than this sort of performance.
Have you seen him in Alice in Wonderland?????????? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7xfnqV3 ... re=related
We all have our thoughts on whom would play what part in movies and I think Ian McKellen made Gandalf come alive for a lot of us. I think he would have been a better choice to play Albus Dumbledore, no offense to the late RH and MG. Nimoy will do a great job as Smaug, thank you for the very warm welcome. Tolkeins stories have been apart of my soul for a very long time. :mrgreen:
[quote="corneliusduke":27e2t1n4]We all have our thoughts on whom would play what part in movies and I think Ian McKellen made Gandalf come alive for a lot of us. I think he would have been a better choice to play Albus Dumbledore, no offense to the late RH and MG. Nimoy will do a great job as Smaug, thank you for the very warm welcome. Tolkeins stories have been apart of my soul for a very long time. :mrgreen:[/quote:27e2t1n4] Having only read the books probably after the films, McKellen was, and remains Gandalf for me. I know older people may and probably do picture Gandalf differently, but for me- there's no one better for the job!
I agree, Ally. I think it would be amsing for Ian to play Smaug as well. I don't know why, but I always imagine both Gandalf and Smaug talking in Tolkien's voice. I think Ian tried to be "Tolkien" when he played Gandalf. Why not Smaug. He is a brilliant actor after all. Surely Smaug must be done by the best actor and best voice available:-Jane
[quote="pettytyrant101":203vo11y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSUGp9Yz1sk Hammy, pantomine villain!! No! No! No for Smaug. The role deserves so much better than this sort of performance.[/quote:203vo11y] Bollocks :x ! Absolute Brilliance that scene was. What? A villain can't be humourous? Utter Ribbish. :P [b:203vo11y]GB[/b:203vo11y]
[quote="corneliusduke":34zaykin]We all have our thoughts on whom would play what part in movies and I think Ian McKellen made Gandalf come alive for a lot of us. I think he would have been a better choice to play Albus Dumbledore, no offense to the late RH and MG. Nimoy will do a great job as Smaug, thank you for the very warm welcome. Tolkeins stories have been apart of my soul for a very long time. :mrgreen:[/quote:34zaykin] I would have loved to see McKellen as Dumbledore; he would have been perfect. A thousand times NO for Nimoy as Smaug though. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Trek and Nimoy fan, but he's all wrong for Smaug. [b:34zaykin]GB[/b:34zaykin]
Ron Perlman should be his voice.
[quote="HarryCanyon":mt12h3yx]Ron Perlman should be his voice.[/quote:mt12h3yx] NO! :P (But he can be Beorn <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> ) [b:mt12h3yx]GB[/b:mt12h3yx]
I know that most people will take this suggestion as fluff for who the person is, but as rafiki tells Simba, Look Deeper.... ?Vin Diesel Okay now that you have stopped laughing, seriously think about just his voice, tweek it a little and I think you could have smaug. Okay...Flame away.... I still think it could be done.
First up welcome to the forum TragicKingdom. Got to admit that's a left field suggestion- but that doesn't necessarily make it a bad one. I'm a big fan of both the Riddick films and he does have a great voice. He can do both frightening and melodous a the same time. His main problem is that with exception of the Riddick flms he has mainly been in crap, but that doesn't rule him out. Mmm, I will have to muse over this one- then I might flame it! <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' />
Thanks for the Welcome, my only other suggestion for the voice of smaug, (Which I find as important to this movie as who was cast as Bilbo and Thorin) is Jeremy Irons. His voice just drips with lethal depth. I have never heard his voice in a movie and not thought: Deadly but restrained when needed. Which is exactly what old smaug is to me.
Hi TragicKingdom (but I hope not [i:3n0dr4y0]too[/i:3n0dr4y0] tragic). I've been mulling over the "voice" for Smaug, and I can't get past the thought that that old dragon's most telling characteristics are his "pragmatism" and natural "greed." To further (and maintain) his lifestyle requires cunning too, and living life atop a pile of treasure wearing a glittering vest worth a fortune in itself, would encourage one to be quite cynical too, I feel - surely there is more in life to aspire to, or is there? Also, the fact he must know everyone envies and hates him, must surely make him feel the pangs of hard wisdom, born of uncertainty and underlying fear; to make him both wary and resentful, and not a little world weary. And the loneliness! It's not just about a "voice", as such, but "his" voice. A normal human voice, not too thin, not too fat, not too heavy, not too light - any human voice, indeed. The voice could easily be your average voice, but an average voice that is embued with both its situation and its history, that is, its "personality", not something concocted for grand effect. If there is too much emphasis on power and evil - except of a mundane everyday kind - it would weaken him. Tolkien's gift was in making the fantastic seem quite normal - there lies Smaug's strength as a character, for he's not a grand monster at all, except of the faulty human kind. So what about Michael Downey Junior? We don't want him (or his voice) overplayed, do we?:-Jane
[quote="HenrySmith":ty0lnia9] If there is too much emphasis on power and evil - except of a mundane everyday kind - it would weaken him. Tolkien's gift was in making the fantastic seem quite normal - there lies Smaug's strength as a character, for he's not a grand monster at all, except of the faulty human kind. So what about Michael Downey Junior? We don't want him (or his voice) overplayed, do we?:-Jane[/quote:ty0lnia9] Welcome TragicKingdom! <img src='/images/smileys/smile.gif' border='0' alt='Smile Smilie' /> Nice description of Smaug, Jane, but I'm a bit curious: Do you mean [i:ty0lnia9]Robert[/i:ty0lnia9] Downey Jr? Did a google search on Michael Downey Jr, but didn't get many (relevant) results.
Hmmm...Vin Diesel? Not a bad idea actually. He can shift tones from Menacing to Wry with ease. I have to concur with Petty. The Riddick films are exceptionally well done. My only problem is the accent. I've said this before and I'll say it again, if an American actor is hired for a part, they'd better bloody well be able to pull off a good British (any region) or Irish accent. I'd accept a reasonably performed Eastern European or German accent for Smaug also. [b:1b4k3p98]GB[/b:1b4k3p98]
[quote="Gandalfs Beard":1gj58h9w]German accent for Smaug also. [b:1gj58h9w]GB[/b:1gj58h9w][/quote:1gj58h9w] Don't know why, but I love this idea! It's not Hitler related or anything like that, but for some reason, a German accent would be perfect for Smaug. You think of everything, GB <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' />
I LOVED that description Jane! And I agree that they shouldn't over do the voice. I think that the more mundane it is, the spookier it will be. And in this case, we know that they'll over do the look, so don't over do the voice, because that's just too much to throw at someone and it becomes much to unrealistic.
[quote="Ringdrotten":dnb3ry0h][quote="Gandalfs Beard":dnb3ry0h]German accent for Smaug also. [b:dnb3ry0h]GB[/b:dnb3ry0h][/quote:dnb3ry0h] Don't know why, but I love this idea! It's not Hitler related or anything like that, but for some reason, a German accent would be perfect for Smaug. You think of everything, GB <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' />[/quote:dnb3ry0h] Well I've always liked the Hildebrandt Brothers' depiction of Smaug. And he looks rather Teutonic in that picture, so that's probably why I think a German accent would work (by the way, Alan Rickman performed a reasonably passable German accent in Die Hard <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> ). [b:dnb3ry0h]GB[/b:dnb3ry0h]
I for one am rather hoping they use dialect more distinctly than they did in LotR. The Men of Lake Town should all have the same accent, something European rather than english I think. Something nordic would suit well I believe. Unfortuntely they can't really give the elves of Thranduil a different accent from other elves thanks to blooming Bloom not having a distinct accent in LotR. German for Smaug might work so long as doesn;t end up sounding like the Commander of POW camp from WW2! I don't want to se TH via 'allo, 'allo.
[quote="pettytyrant101":3rzvvgso]I for one am rather hoping they use dialect more distinctly than they did in LotR. The Men of Lake Town should all have the same accent, something European rather than english I think. Something nordic would suit well I believe. Unfortuntely they can't really give the elves of Thranduil a different accent from other elves thanks to blooming Bloom not having a distinct accent in LotR. German for Smaug might work so long as doesn;t end up sounding like the Commander of POW camp from WW2! I don't want to se TH via 'allo, 'allo.[/quote:3rzvvgso] All good points (except I liked Blooming Bloom <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> , I still think it's his best performance in any film to date). [b:3rzvvgso]GB[/b:3rzvvgso]
As long as its not Martin Shaw. On the audio CD its terrible, his Gollum wasnt much better :|
You only think a German accent would be Smaug sounding because of American Cinema casting bad guys as Germans. So it all stems down from the two world wars and the fact we can't understand the language that makes the language appear evil to us. Personally, I hoping for a dragon with a Welsh accent. Here to help!
Isn't the word "Smaug" of German extraction, anyway? :ugeek:
[quote="Jolly Cotton":2qvbygvh]the fact we can't understand the language that makes the language appear evil to us[/quote:2qvbygvh] Actually, I do understand a little German <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> German and Norwegian are similar in many ways, the pronounciation is the big difference (and the grammar. And the words <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' /> I don't understand much of it, but if I try, I can make sense or at least understand something of German sentences.)
"Isn't the word "Smaug" of German extraction, anyway?"- Eldo This is from wiki so take with the usual grain of salt; 'According to Tolkien, the name Smaug is "the past tense of the primitive Germanic verb smeugan (Old Norse smj˙ga; past smaug) = "to squeeze through a hole"" So a German or Nordic accent would fit the bill. "I do understand a little German"- Ringdrotten Makes two of us then. <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' /> I did German at school but only for two years and it was a long time ago. But the Scots, the Nordic and the Germanic dialects all seem to have quite a close kinship and many of the sounds, espcially the throaty ones the English seem to struggle with, are common in them all.
Thanks Petty. <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' /> I did German for three semesters fairly recently but I wouldn't pretend to be proficient or fluent at it. :lol: I don't think it sounds evil though; I like the sound and flow of the language.
[quote="pettytyrant101":2hhgxfab] This is from wiki so take with the usual grain of salt [/quote:2hhgxfab] No need for salt! [quote="pettytyrant101":2hhgxfab] 'According to Tolkien, the name Smaug is "the past tense of the primitive Germanic verb smeugan (Old Norse smj˙ga; past smaug) = "to squeeze through a hole"" [/quote:2hhgxfab] Never occured to me it might mean that! That verb is used in Norwegian even today. The infinitive is "Smyge" however, and it could also mean sneaking. In my dialect, "smaug" is the past tense of this verb, which I now find quite cool <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' /> Thanks for the info, Petty!
The only hint Tolkien made of dialect or "accent" was the way the trolls talked. Any talk of using any other local dialect or accent other than [i:17pf6spu]Tolkienian[/i:17pf6spu] would be very [i:17pf6spu]Jacksonian[/i:17pf6spu] talk, I would have thought. "Tolkien" English might be the best dialect/accent after all, if the idea must be pressed. A Germanic accent would just sound silly - just as an Australian accent would sound silly, or Scots, American, or Norwegian. The accents of the main characters in the LotR movies (with minor exception shown by Gimli - which didn't do much for me by the way) were fine. Why mess with it?:-Jane
[quote="HenrySmith":3pdcxlf3] just as a .. Norwegian .. accent[/quote:3pdcxlf3] That [i:3pdcxlf3]would[/i:3pdcxlf3] have been silly, believe me <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' /> But what's wrong with a Scottish accent? Billy Boyd (Pippin) has one in the LotR films, and that worked just fine. As to "Tolkien" English, as you put it, I was under the impression that Tolkien sounded a bit Scottish himself? At least he does when he reads from LotR/TH, he has that lovely rolling R <img src='/images/smileys/smile.gif' border='0' alt='Smile Smilie' /> (I'm very fond of rolling R's, as we have them where I come from too <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' /> )
Quite right Ringdrotten. I think, given ME is supposed to be a forgotten epoch in northern european history, that any accent from that region is suitable for varies places in ME. Greek for Gondor, Anglo-saxon with a hint of norse for Rohan. West country english with a hint of anglo-saxon for the hobbits. And a northern english accent for Bree. Scottish for dwarves of the Lonely Mountain (before the dragon) and the Men of Lake-town. You're also right about Tolkien rolling his 'r's Ringdrotten, fond of it myself as Scots do it too. I was a bit disappointed in the films that noone except for Sir Ian gave it a good go when saying Morrrrdor, in the way Tolkien does, and even Sir Ian doesn't quite give it the same gusto.
Not to mention that Tolkien himself wanted (correct me if I'm wrong) the different peoples of ME to be distinguishable through their spoken language/dialects. I think Tolkien would've been glad to see different accents in these movies, however unhappy he might have been with other things <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' />
"Not to mention that Tolkien himself wanted (correct me if I'm wrong) the different peoples of ME to be distinguishable through their spoken language/dialects."- Ringdrotten "Hobbits! Four hobbits! And what's more out of the Shire by their talk" - Harry the Gatekeeper. FotR
A heavy emphasis on any accent is not neccessary, which is what I guess I was getting at. Billy Boyd did not stand out strongly from the Hobbits, but maybe he shouldn't have at all in retrospect. There was a definite upper cast and lower cast in the Shire, but were there actually different dialects/accents? The Bree Hobbits were a strange bunch, mixing with humans too closely, I can imagine them speaking different, not just gate keepers would notice Shirean I suppose, if ya knose wat eye mean. As to Gondorians speaking Greek, do you really think so?:-Jane
I love tolkien as much as the next man, maybe even more, but lets not cannonize him. It was because of money that he gave the rights first to the BBC to make a TV movie of it in 1966, and then sold the rights to United Artists for a bag of cash in 1969. In between these two events he had placed alot of restrictions on the filming, so much so that producers said that it could not be filmed with so many conditions. Tolkien was even quoted as saying "You cannot cramp narrative into dramatic form. It would be easier to film the oddyssey; much less happens in it - only a few storms" Even his fans stated that to film his books would be like "putting Disneyland in the Grand Canyon" But he was hit hard with Taxes because of making so much. He stated "I don't seem to have much more money then I did when I was a professor, but I do pay 18/3 tax on the pound (roughly $2.19 out of every $2.40, this was the highest tax bracket in england at the time) now. By 69' he took the cash and nixed the requirements he stated was needed for filming before. Leaving it in the hands of United to decide how to proceed. And they decided right along with the BBC years earlier that they could not do it. Not trying to tarnish the thought of him, but I really do not like it when others put words in someones mouth, and make things into mythos. This is done with alot of visionaries, I hear it all the time where I live with Walt Disney. Walt would have liked this, or not liked that. And with alot of religous people. Jesus would not have wanted it like that, or what would he have done, I bet I know. So unless it is in print that he made those statements, I shy away from saying this is what he would have wanted for the hobbit movie. Just my 2 cents.
My goodness, MagicKingdom, I think you landed on the wrong thread. Perhaps this might be better on the Big Bad Serious Thread, or better still, somewhere in the "Tolkien" section. Still, I don't doubt what you say:-Jane <img src='/images/smileys/smile.gif' border='0' alt='Smile Smilie' />
I think it is safe to say TragicKingdom, as Ringdrotten did that 'Tolkien himself wanted the different peoples of ME to be distinguishable through their spoken language/dialects'. We know he wanted this. In his own words, in the text of the book which he wrote. It couldn't therefore be clearer. I quoted the passage from Fellowship but I could have equally drawn on the differences in accent noted in Rohan by Merry or by Pippin in Gondor. Indeed the differences in both style, usage and accent between Pippin and Denethor are gone into by Tolkien in either the appendix or UT (I can't remember offhand which). The text supports the assertation clearly. I actually agree with the overall thrust of what you say, but I think you picked a bad example to demonstrate it.
Ok so Ron Perlman is a bad choice, but hearing Smaug talk Norweigin/Swedish sounding accent would be good but i think Patrick Stewart should provide his voice maybe even in a Norweigen kind of accent that Stewart can provide or his regular voice.
I don't think Patrick Stewart would be right for Smaug at all. He's just too Stiff and Stentorian--great for a Shakespearean Kingly role, but all wrong for someone as Slithery and Serpentine as Smaug. [b:27z5sxat]GB[/b:27z5sxat]
How about Leonard Nimoy from the original Star Trek? <img src='/images/smileys/smile.gif' border='0' alt='Smile Smilie' /> Wouldn't mind him. Maybe they should draft in some unknown, which to be honest, is just as likely to be a good Smaug than anyone else. As long as they audition senseibly!
NO! :P As a huge Trek fan, I think Leonard Nimoy is awesome. but he's not Smaugish. [b:ul3tasd6]GB[/b:ul3tasd6]
"So you met him, did ya, GB, met him, did ya, did ya, GB, hey - know what he talked like, did ya, hey, did ya, because you've met him, GB, hey? Smaug that is, hey, not Nimoy, hey, not sayin' you didn't meet either, am I, GB no i'm not, hey, am I, hey?" (In Peter Griffin voice - though could be Stewie come to think? :? )
Stewie for Smaug...now [i:3qqb97zo]there's[/i:3qqb97zo] an idea. <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> [b:3qqb97zo]GB[/b:3qqb97zo]
This is my first post to THE HOBBIT FORUM so let me know if I'm doing anything wrong. I have heard that Christopher Lee is indeed slated to be the voice of Smaug. I read this in a New Zealand newspaper as a small entertainment blurb. I don't know if it's true or rumor naturally, but I think it would cool to keep Smaug's voice "in the family" of actors who were already in the Lord of the Rings.
I believe that is/was a rumor, but cannot say anything for sure. At any rate, welcome to the forum! <img src='/images/smileys/smile.gif' border='0' alt='Smile Smilie' />
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