Thread: The Hobbit Movie 1
Well, I suppose ever since the dubious animated film in the seventies, people have been waiting for a decent Hobbit film, especially since Lord of the Rings. Now, we finally get what we were after, but will it be what we expect? Will it stick to the warm children's story it was originally written as? Or will it take a darker route, exploring the nature of greed and loss of innocence, as Del Toro hinted it might? In short, how different will it be from the book?
Generally speaking, I'm just not sure what to expect from Del Toro. His style is so very distinctive and different--which is not necessarily a bad thing, it just doesn't have that [i:2yngrs9r]LOTR[/i:2yngrs9r] feel to it. He worries me somewhat, but he could also potentially do a great job with the movies. I would hope, really, that the films are not stylistically (or in any other way) jarring when placed next to the [i:2yngrs9r]LOTR[/i:2yngrs9r] trilogy, I would hope for the same level of quality in acting, dialogue, etc., etc., and I would hope, in the case of [i:2yngrs9r]The Hobbit[/i:2yngrs9r], that Del Toro would be true, very true to the book and, in the case of the second movie, that he would be true to the tales existing in the appendices and would not go making up a whole bunch of things, and I would hope, in both movies, that he would preserve the look and feel of the world of [i:2yngrs9r]LOTR[/i:2yngrs9r].
I wouldn't mind [i:2yngrs9r]The Hobbit[/i:2yngrs9r] movie being a [i:2yngrs9r]bit[/i:2yngrs9r] darker than the book, I guess, but if it were [i:2yngrs9r]too[/i:2yngrs9r] dark, I feel like it would seem silly next to [i:2yngrs9r]The Lord of the Rings[/i:2yngrs9r]. Though there are, of course, undertones in [i:2yngrs9r]The Hobbit[/i:2yngrs9r] that can be made darker and more imposing, to try to make it a terribly grim tale would be foolish, for the astute viewer would simply look at the plot and recognize that the dangers of [i:2yngrs9r]The Hobbit[/i:2yngrs9r] cannot compare to those of [i:2yngrs9r]The Lord of the Rings[/i:2yngrs9r]. In short, to try to make [i:2yngrs9r]The Hobbit[/i:2yngrs9r] seem as dark as [i:2yngrs9r]The Lord of the Rings[/i:2yngrs9r] would be a mistake because it cannot possibly be done.
One would think that the look and tone of the Hobbit will resemble that of the movie trilogy, though the tone of the book is so much lighter than that of the LOTR, just because they kind of need to match, right? They've already got the creatures and the sets and the design for the whole franchize, yes? The movies are acting on us, the present-time audience, as a set, so they should match. Oh, but hang on...just thought of something...which was probably the idea of the person who started this line of discussion. The movies don't necessarily have to match in tone because The Hobbit CAN be the story As Told By Bilbo, emphasizing the Red Book as a travel journal or a book of memoirs and the notion of everything being told from Bilbo's perspective. By the time LOTR opens, Bilbo is already a well-traveled hobbit-of-the-world, and Frodo has benefitted from his stories for years, and so can be assumed to have some knowledge of the wider world, but when The Hobbit opens, Bilbo is an adventure virgin. Bilbo serves as our stand-in, having to have this world (and the ways of dwarves [crap, is it dwarves or dwarfs?] and elves and trolls and wizards and men) be explained to him. And frequent mention is made of his ambivalence towards adventures, wishing he could be at home in bed or sitting down to bacon and eggs and such instead of sleeping on this big tree root. You know, and a major theme is that of the journey and the danger of going out of your front door, never knowing what you will find out there, and the childishness of staying home vs. having wider experience. So they could make a big thematic deal out of the simple naive hobbity tone and tell it as a STORY with big leather book and pages that open and such in the opening, and then they could have the world be more chunky and wood-cut-ty.
I wasn't thinking that, though, when I began this post. I was thinking more about how The Hobbit is so dwarf-centered in that it's their idea, their mission, their history, their priorities, their foreign relations problems, etc. that drive the journey and its complications, and that to Bilbo, they are the first new culture he is being exposed to, so I thought maybe the Hobbit movie would be much more dwarf-centric in its art. We really didn't get much in the LOTR movies about dwarfs/dwarves except for Gimli, a few anonymous ones at the Council of Elrond, and then some dried-out specimens in Moria. Let the same artistic team go to town realizing the dwarf culture, and I'll bet it will influence the look of the Hobbit quite a lot. They can capitalize on that whole notion of a weapon or tool having a special history, skill in its making, succession of owners, special properties, and such, because dwarf/ves are so big into making and possessing. Side question: How are they going to handle 12 dwarfs/dwarves on a journey without making most of them seem anonymous or faceless?
btw, I'm pretty sure it is "dwarves" not "dwarfs." It's always opposite of what the modern person spells it. Like if you read the word in a newspaper they'll spell it like "dwarfs" but if you read it in Tolkien it it "dwarves."
Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I too get confused sometimes.
Either form is correct. Apparently, post Tolkien, the plural dwarves is favored by Fantasy writers and readers of Fantasy who write other things. But Dwarfs can still be found in much of our media. Google Dwarves vs Dwarfs for more in depth linguistic discussions on this point.
I just remember that, somewhere, maybe in a letter or in a preface to a book, Tolkien made a big deal out of the spelling of the plural form of dwarf, so I didn't want to commit a grievous trespass, but I also didn't want to go look it up.
I've just been reading The Silmarillion, and that book gives you such a sense of the NATURE of things, creatures, races, and/or cultures. MAKING is an urge we all have because we, all of us creatures, long to walk in the steps of Illuvatar and imitate by creating. The Valar who made the dwarfs was impatient, and let his desire to make them NOW go before his need to obey the will of Illuvatar and make them and wake them in their appointed time. But the Valar who made dwarfs is the one who is most into manipulating matter to make it into things. One particular elf (Feanor) is known for his great skill in making, but he is proud and possessive. He makes the silmarils, jewels which house the light of Illuvatar, and then, even after other available sources of the light are destroyed, he doesn't want to share the silmarils, even though their intrinsic value comes from the light that they house (which he did not make and which is really given to all creatures) rather than the cleverly crafted receptacles that house them (which he did make). Dwarfs are similarly great at making things, but they love their creations too much, and take too little heed of the harm they do to the natural world. So elves are always kind of mad at them. But we didn't dig too deeply into dwarf culture--the better aspects of it--in the LOTR films. I guess we get SOME idea when the Fellowship goes through Moria--you see how vast it must have been. But you don't get the sense of how GOOD and highly regarded dwarf products are. In The Hobbit there's that whole theme of them wanting their stuff back, and finding the odd stolen treasure hoard here and there and recovering things they made, and then telling Bilbo about the history of this or that article, and its properties. Then they don't want to share the dragon hoard with other cultures who have been hurt by Smaug. So I wonder if the filmmakers will really capitalize on this theme of MAKING as the props department makes the props and sets and such. It gives them permission to really have a blast and go all out.
As dwarves feature more prominently in the Hobbit, we can expect to see much more of the positive side of dwarves. I think we will see a lot of what you suggested make it onto the screen. Yes, Tolkien did make a big deal out of the spelling of dwarves. If you are concerned about it, he felt DWARVES was the proper spelling. Please, Google dwarves versus dwarfs and check out the first 2 hits. It will take you less than 5 minutes and you will be glad you did. My short term memory is shot or I would just tell you more of what I found.
I would agree that we will see a more posative side of the dwarves. I'm glad to finally see that. In reading the books The Hobbit and The Silmarillion that the dwarves are a very intersting race. As far as the 12 dwarves becoming faceless I really don't think that will be the case. As long as Del Torro does the casting right each of the dwarves in the story is very unique so that shouldn't be a problem. However I can see it all going bad if not casted correctly. But I have faith in Del Torro he has proven himself to be an excellent director in all his films even if he usually has a different style. Peter Jackson as well is still going to be doing the screenplay so that should also keep the dwarves from being too much alike.
I hope the Dwarves have sensibly coloured beards in The Hobbit 1. Not the ridiculously garish coloured beards that some people seem to want!
Restrained blues, Heidi-next-door yellows, gravy-stained browns and distinguished silvers - that kind of thing would be appropriate.
Hehe, it would be fun though. And if they changed the dwarves' instruments with guitars and drums and some lousy vocal, we'd be in for a real punk concert!
Now, now - I was trying to have a serious discussion. You'd turn this beloved book into a Movie Parody would you, sir?
Oh come on Odo, I know you're dying to see a Dwarf with a Chartreuse and Hot Pink striped Beard.
[quote="Gandalfs Beard":26bxzfjl]Oh come on Odo, I know you're dying to see a Dwarf with a Chartreuse and Hot Pink striped Beard.
What I'd really like to see is Hot Pink striped Gandalfs Beard!
Stop it! You're making me blush!
I'm naked while I'm typing this...
Now you're just scaring me.
Oh sorry! I'll slip on my nylons...
Seems to be something dubious in the air today! What is going on?
I feel like I need to go have a bath just from reading your posts.
Odo and I are playing Tag on the forum again.
Yes, up to now I've managed to get my nylons on - I'm hoping to at least get my knickers on before he does anything more than tag me...
I wish I could have been on at the same time as you guys.
Unfortunately I was out, though fortunately I got to go to an amusement/water park (switched between the water part and the coasters).
It's a just as well you weren't, Eldo --- GB had gone all naughty!!!
Odo started it.
I love this place.