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I....said....stop....it! :x :x :x
Oh come on...you've got to admit it's kinda funny...
*Poofs in*

* :lol: 's at the whole thread*

* :cry: 's for Odo*

*Pats Odo*

* :lol: 's again*

*Poofs out*
Try "The Hobwit" on fanfic for that kind of thing (actually, its given me a few ideas) but DO NOT tarnish 'The Hobbit" with this kind of naughty wrongheadeness! :x

Durin[b:3s63ekp6] YOU ARE NOT FUNNY[/b:3s63ekp6] Stop encouraging these louts! I was hoping you'd pull them into line now that GB's clearly forgotten his responsibilities! (He's not [b:3s63ekp6]Moderate [/b:3s63ekp6]at all lately!)

[quote="Tartorus":3s63ekp6]Oh come on...you've got to admit it's kinda funny...[/quote:3s63ekp6]

.. and enough from you, Mr Tartoros.... I'm having enough trouble trying to keep good order as it is! This was once a [i:3s63ekp6]respectable [/i:3s63ekp6]forum, I'll have you know! :x

Anyhow, you guys, this is the "Let's talk directors vision" thread! Yes, a [b:3s63ekp6][i:3s63ekp6]respectable[/i:3s63ekp6][/b:3s63ekp6] thread! (...or was... :cry: )
<img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> :lol:

[b:1d5z7h29]GB[/b:1d5z7h29]

PS: I couldn't resist Odo
[quote="Odo Banks":bnpwd6da]
Durin[b:bnpwd6da] YOU ARE NOT FUNNY[/b:bnpwd6da] Stop encouraging these louts! I was hoping you'd pull them into line now that GB's clearly forgotten his responsibilities! [/quote:bnpwd6da]

*Pat pat*

You're right. *Puts moderator cap on and throws whistle over neck.*

What am I supposed to do now? :|
Oooooh! You guys make me so mad! :x :x You know, it's almost like you guys aren't taking this seriously! You all need a spanking..... A real one! So don't start giggling!I wonder if that mysterious [b:3dkzqaoe]ADY [/b:3dkzqaoe] chap is around somewhere? Maybe, he (or she?) could help... Disgusting behavior! One and all! :x
[quote="Odo Banks":9wnvxj8l].. and enough from you, Mr Tartoros.... I'm having enough trouble trying to keep good order as it is! This was once a [i:9wnvxj8l]respectable [/i:9wnvxj8l]forum, I'll have you know! :x [/quote:9wnvxj8l]

I remember exactly the time that it stopped being one! <img src='/images/smileys/vevil.gif' border='0' alt='Very Evil Smilie' /> It was ... *checks the information under your avatar* ... Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:21 am. :mrgreen:
There, there, dear Odo.

No need to get your knickers in a twist! It's all fun and games until someone puts an eye out! :mrgreen: Have yourself a Pint of Coopers or VB and think calm Manly thoughts...

Deep Breaths Now...in...out...

Feeling better now?.......Good!

[b:i2j3pgzd]GB[/b:i2j3pgzd]
[quote="Gandalfs Beard":mggubzd0]There, there, dear Odo.

No need to get your knickers in a twist! It's all fun and games until someone puts an eye out! :mrgreen: Have yourself a Pint of Coopers or VB and think calm Manly thoughts...

Deep Breaths Now...in...out...

Feeling better now?.......Good!

[b:mggubzd0]GB[/b:mggubzd0][/quote:mggubzd0]


I have a [i:mggubzd0]bad[/i:mggubzd0] feeling this is all going to turn out very [i:mggubzd0]bad[/i:mggubzd0].

:|
[i:29ofebox]I remember exactly the time that it stopped being one! <img src='/images/smileys/vevil.gif' border='0' alt='Very Evil Smilie' /> It was ... *checks the information under your avatar* ... Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:21 am. :mrgreen:[/i:29ofebox]

What a strange coinicidence, Eldo, that's the date.... [b:29ofebox]Hey! It's not me! [/b:29ofebox]Even you've turned on me... (How persuasive the Puerilists!)

All I've ever done is try to promote harmony and good fellowship and respectability among [i:29ofebox]true[/i:29ofebox] friends. I blame GB for all this! The rest of you are just followers. Yes, now I've gone said it, and I'm not afraid to shout it plainly from the rooftops: [b:29ofebox]"You're just a pack of Beard Followers!" [/b:29ofebox] ( :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: )

I did try to warn people that GB was out to make this forum puerile! Did anyone listen? Oh no! Don't listen to silly meek sweet respectable butter-wouldn't-melt-in-his-mouth old Odo Banks! What does he know? And now you're all brainwashed. Yes, I'll shout this too (from the rooftops, yes): [b:29ofebox]"You're all brainwashed!" [/b:29ofebox]

If good people don't stand up for what is [i:29ofebox]right[/i:29ofebox], my friends, then bad things happen... I think events have borne me out.... :mrgreen:
My work is done! :mrgreen:

[b:3jm7w4z0]GB[/b:3jm7w4z0]
Doh....!
[quote="Odo Banks":1tcb3gri]All I've ever done is try to promote harmony and good fellowship and respectability among [i:1tcb3gri]true[/i:1tcb3gri] friends.[/quote:1tcb3gri]

*coughcoughcoughcough*

[quote:1tcb3gri]I blame GB for all this! The rest of you are just followers. Yes, now I've gone said it, and I'm not afraid to shout it plainly from the rooftops: [b:1tcb3gri]"You're just a pack of Beard Followers!" [/b:1tcb3gri] ( :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: )[/quote:1tcb3gri]

How can I resist the girly blue and silver Beard? :P
I don't know- I go offline for a short time and this is what I come back to! First up, welcome to the forum Tartorus. Now the pleasantries are done with I cant help but take exception at a comment you made;

"I read back further and I also noticed a lot of just plain stupid comments about a variety of things, for example, the beards being blue and the scenes with lots of people in it."

I think I started both those points, the beards one mainly to provoke Odo on the point of purists and how far that goes (Tolkien does describe coloured beards in the Hobbit if you'd care to read it,) and as for the second point about the technical difficulties of filming a scene with large cast numbers, I feel entirely justified raising such a point in a thread about directing. Perhaps you need to understand the technical issues of directing better before dismissing out of hand other peoples posts as "plain stupid".
Of course I read the books! I specifically remember the beard part. I suppose I will do exactly what I told everybody not to do, which was to worry about it. PLEASE give them their proper colour beards, as taking any aspect away from the movie that was in the book hurts. It hurts everybody. Just simply give a hint of blue so that you can recognize that it is blue, but not make it look silly. You know what I mean by silly so don't start that argument again.

Odo Banks... please calm down. You have to reallize that though you may have an especially great fondness for the book, as do I, you need to calm down. You are playing right into GB's hands. It's not that big of a deal to hold in your thoughts and keep it to yourself. If you really would like to make this a respectable forum, then don't continue corrupting it. OH EM GOSH Odo. I love the book too. <img src='/images/smileys/sad.gif' border='0' alt='Sad Smilie' />

I suppose I do underestimate the technical difficulties and all, and I don't mind that you noted the fact that the scene will be hard, but you don't need to give advice and blah blah blah. They will figure that crap out. I suppose I should just shut up. The whole reason I posted the stupid stuff though was that there were arguments and people saying random things and it was just a mess compared to when people were talking about the Hobbit.

So so far there's not a lot of news on the Hobbit, but I hope they keep the change from the book to the movie very minimal. I can just see it in my head. Well so far the movie seems pretty epic in my head. With dramatic music in the backround and a frightened little hobbit who acts very brave.
Oh and one thing I forgot to mention. How will they explain certain things in the movie without a backround narrarator? If you notice, Tolkien likes to add lots of things in his reading like "in fact, they were not far off from the edge of the forest. They had just been in a valley" Of course that's really not what he wrote, but it was something like that. That message could easily be explained without words, but it's just an example. And the scenes in the dark? They could just make it so you can see everything it just seems dark, which they probably will. If they do make it so you can barely see anything you might have to have Bilbo say "I can't tell if my eyes are open, it's so dark!" Of course they should make it abnormally dark. It gives the effect that Tolkien wanted.
Don't mind Odo, Tartorus; he enjoys being irascible :mrgreen: . And because we all get along so well here, and there is so little real news yet, we have pretend Flame Wars to keep things amusing :roll: (at least when we're not debating Purism or Canon <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> ).

Honestly, nobody here really wants Smurf Blue Beards :lol: . And I doubt DT is going to go that route. But he does have an interesting palette if the Hellboy franchise is any indication. So I doubt he'll shy away from having at least tinted Beards.

As to narration, a good film should be able to adapt with as little as possible. The cardinal rule for setting any visual scene in any medium is "show, don't tell". Of course we all know that some narration is a necessity when conveying a lot of information in a short amount of time. So hopefully it will be minimal.

[b:1slndvo2]GB[/b:1slndvo2]
My desires are simple, Tartortos, all I want is for the beards to be a [i:3ncpw64t]respectable [/i:3ncpw64t]hue of blue, though [i:3ncpw64t]blue [/i:3ncpw64t] nonetheless! And, please, let's not focus so much on blue beards that it becomes obsessional; there are also [i:3ncpw64t]yellow [/i:3ncpw64t]beards to consider. :mrgreen:

And shouldn't this be on [b:3ncpw64t]Dwarves[/b:3ncpw64t] thread?

And since when did you get all sensible again, GB?
About the same time you did :P :lol: .

As it is an issue that requires directorial approval, I think the topic of Dwarf Beards is a crossover topic. As to yellow beards, or orange, or red: blonde, and various shades of ginger will suffice. It's only blues, greens, or purples that present a challenge. :mrgreen:

[b:12c6np33]GB[/b:12c6np33]
I don't remember the [i:1dsop10p]purple [/i:1dsop10p] or [i:1dsop10p]green [/i:1dsop10p]ones... They would present a challenge! :lol:
Precisely. <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' />

[b:3861bh4q]GB[/b:3861bh4q]
[quote="Gandalfs Beard":2e6crkld]And because we all get along so well here, and there is so little real news yet, we have pretend Flame Wars to keep things amusing :roll: (at least when we're not debating Purism or Canon <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> ).[/quote:2e6crkld]

Quite frankly it's remarkable that we're not having real flame wars, the number of times purism has come up. :lol:

[quote:2e6crkld]Honestly, nobody here really wants Smurf Blue Beards :lol: .[/quote:2e6crkld]

I somehow doubt Tolkien envisioned Smurf-blue beards. Even if he did, I am willing to forgive a good deal on the visual side of things. That is really the greatest place for original creativity by the filmmakers, and so long as the story itself is preserved it would take something far more drastic than beard colour to bother me (and this is speaking as probably the most outspoken purist on this forum).

[quote:2e6crkld]As to narration, a good film should be able to adapt with as little as possible.[/quote:2e6crkld]

I would be happy with no narration at all. I don't even like voiceover that much, though in moderation it can be useful.
[quote="Tartorus":jzwyxt7g]You are playing right into GB's hands.[/quote:jzwyxt7g]

If you read some more of the threads on this forum, you may notice that it is Odo trying to get something interesting happening rather than GB having any sort of plot. <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' />

[quote:jzwyxt7g]The whole reason I posted the stupid stuff though was that there were arguments and people saying random things and it was just a mess compared to when people were talking about the Hobbit.[/quote:jzwyxt7g]

The thing is, we talk about a lot more than just The Hobbit. We have a very loose policy about off-topic discussions and frivolous posts, largely (I suspect) because this forum gets relatively little traffic. I think it's great that we have off-topic discussion since it builds community, but if you don't like it you don't have to join in. Other people still have the right to say random things, though.
[quote="Tartorus":1s6ei9hz]Oh and one thing I forgot to mention. How will they explain certain things in the movie without a backround narrarator?[/quote:1s6ei9hz]

Visuals and dialogue should suffice, I think. Keeping explanations to those two sources makes the film stronger and more professional, too.

[quote:1s6ei9hz]If you notice, Tolkien likes to add lots of things in his reading like "in fact, they were not far off from the edge of the forest. They had just been in a valley" Of course that's really not what he wrote, but it was something like that.[/quote:1s6ei9hz]

Tolkien's narrator asides in The Hobbit will almost certainly not appear in the film. I think this is an example of the differences between the medium of print and of film (wow ... I sound like a revisionist right now! :o ): narrators are a quite common and effective in books, but in films seem out-of-place an a form of lazy storytelling. It just doesn't work the same way after the change in medium.
With all the flaming trouble we've been having lately, Eldo, I'm not sure you should be throwing scurrilous nasturtiums around so freely! :x You seem to imply that I'm behind a fair bit of the troubles. Dark days, indeed! You're soooo unkind... :cry: I've only ever strived to keep things on the straight and narrows! :cry:
*sighs* You think we've had flaming trouble [i:2dp1bdvz]so far[/i:2dp1bdvz]?

[img:2dp1bdvz]http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/ek_lotr/sherman_flamethrower.jpg[/img:2dp1bdvz]

:twisted:
Is there a hobbit in your tank?
Probably goblins. You know how they love their fire.

That just gave me a mental image of the goblins using a tank-flamethrower to attack Gandalf, the Dwarves, and Bilbo while they were hiding in the trees.

[i:3sda03bn]Fifteen birds in five fir-trees,
their feather were seared in a fiery stream!
But, funny little birds, they had no wings!
O how shall we destroy the funny little things?
Roast 'em alive or torch the corpses;
char 'em, burn 'em, flame 'em hot![/i:3sda03bn]
[quote="Eldorion":3ivi5wwp]Probably goblins. You know how they love their fire.

That just gave me a mental image of the goblins using a tank-flamethrower to attack Gandalf, the Dwarves, and Bilbo while they were hiding in the trees.

[i:3ivi5wwp]Fifteen birds in five fir-trees,
their feather were seared in a fiery stream!
But, funny little birds, they had no wings!
O how shall we destroy the funny little things?
Roast 'em alive or torch the corpses;
char 'em, burn 'em, flame 'em hot![/i:3ivi5wwp][/quote:3ivi5wwp]


:lol: :lol: :lol:

I only hope Del Toro doesn't get any ideas from this! :shock:
Well...

[quote="The Hobbit, Over Hill and Under Hill":24j1xjfo]It is not unlike that they [goblins] invented some of the machines that have since troubled the world, especially the ingenious devices for killing large numbers of people at once, for wheels and engines and explosions always delighted them, and not also not working with their hands more than they could help;...[/quote:24j1xjfo]

MWUAHAHAHAHAHA! Goblin tanks FTW! :twisted: :twisted: :lol: :lol:

Oh wait:

[quote:24j1xjfo]...but in those days and those wild parts they had not advanced (as it is called) so far.[/quote:24j1xjfo]

<img src='/images/smileys/sad.gif' border='0' alt='Sad Smilie' />
Yeah I know they are probably not going to have a backround narrarator, but they probably have to have some splainin to do at the beginning like in LOTR. They may even have to get more in deph than in that.

I've seen it in other movies based on books, and often they aren't very good unless they stick to the books. Like they stuck to the book in Harry Potter and it was good. Not so much in the Lightning Thief movie. It sucked. In the book he was 12 and the actor looked 16! Not to mention it wasn't like the book, really. It's like, come on!
[quote="Tartorus":8rownxsv]Yeah I know they are probably not going to have a backround narrarator, but they probably have to have some splainin to do at the beginning like in LOTR. They may even have to get more in deph than in that.[/quote:8rownxsv]

I wouldn't be surprised if they use a voiceover for some sort of Prologue, as they did in LOTR.
Previously on this thread (I think its this one) there was a discussion about whether TH would have a prologue like LoTR. Several suggestions were mooted such as having Bilbo or Gandalf telling the tale to frame the story, (Bilbo as old Bilbo writing his memoirs and Gandalf telling the tale of Erebor in MInas Tirith to Companions as in UT would be most likely if they want to stay close to cannon).
It was generally felt there was a good chance Smaug's arrival at Lonely Mt and the escape of Thorins family would be covered. Another possibility floated was that the White Council and the Necromancer would be mentioned in the prologue, presumably this would suit Gandalf better on narration duty.
Quite agree that adaptations should stick as close to the book as they can, when they don't you just end up with a terrible mess like Two Towers and Return of the King.
[quote="pettytyrant101":3kk4scgf](Bilbo as old Bilbo writing his memoirs and Gandalf telling the tale of Erebor in MInas Tirith to Companions as in UT would be most likely if they want to stay close to cannon).[/quote:3kk4scgf]

I've seen a number of suggestions concerning the UT material, but I hope that people (and the filmmakers) remember that that material is off-limits. The film rights to it were never sold, so I don't think it can legitimately be used in an adaptation. If they do anyway and it's subtle the Tolkien Estate might not make a big deal over it, but I hope the filmmakers can restrain themselves.
Whether leagal or not, any steering away from the actual text of The Hobbit will fatally flaw the movies.
Fairy Tale vs Epic Fantasy is serious problem only if, as it seems to be the case, include non Hobbit related business.

So they have the following options:

1 - Quest for the Arkenstone occupies both movies, faithful to the book fairy tale style, with dead serious parts about the WC and DG scattered around the movie in LotR serious tone.
VERY BAD

2- Quest for the Arkenstone occupies both movies, faithful to the book fairy tale style, with serious parts about the WC and DG scattered around the movie in a light style.
EVEN WORSE


3 - Quest for the Arkenstone occupies both movies with parts about the WC and DG scattered around the movie, all in LotR serious style.
GOOD, but breaks the book (like the Trolls or the Spiders and other funny moments).

4 - Quest for the Arkenstone mainly on the first movie, with WC and DG on the second, movie starting in light funny tone, getting serious smoothly as it goes...
MY FAV, but timeline may have to be changed.. ... ...
The only thing we know about structure is that the Quest of Erebor, the true story of The Hobbit, will span both films. I think it probable that the White Council will receive at least some introduction in the first film, but we really don't know. As for tone, PJ and/or GDT have expressed wishes that the story become darker and more mature so that they fit better with PJ's LotR movies.
The hobbit shouldn't have a funny tone! Spiders and trolls are not funny! The hobbit must simply have more of a relaxed tone at the beginning, and sort of an inexperience throughout the movie. As Bilbo moves on in the book, he starts to be sort of the leader, and having experienced his troubles it could give a cool effect of sageness. I don't see how it could be funny. Maybe relaxed and sort of joking around once in a while maybe when he is at the Shire. But NOT at the adventurous parts, are you MAD? :shock: ?!?!?!?!?!?!!?
[quote="Tartorus":2iqwyrts]I don't see how it could be funny. Maybe relaxed and sort of joking around once in a while maybe when he is at the Shire. But NOT at the adventurous parts, are you MAD? :shock: ?!?!?!?!?!?!!?[/quote:2iqwyrts]

"Tra la la lally"
"Down, down to Goblin-town"
"Fifteen birds in five fir-trees"
"Attercop, Attercop"
"My magic gates"

There are plenty of things in [i:2iqwyrts]The Hobbit[/i:2iqwyrts], even in the serious parts, that can be amusing. I suspect that they'll be toned down in the film, but I hope that the relatively light-hearted tone is preserved.
[quote="VonSalza":17refwwa]
(like the Trolls or the Spiders and other funny moments).
... ...[/quote:17refwwa]
Yeah.
[quote="Tartorus":3c8brvbo]Yeah.[/quote:3c8brvbo]

Am I missing something here? :?
You could have the dwarves just be totally pissed or roll their eyes when the elves are singing to give it some sort of realism too. A lot of people will be thinking, god this is stupid, and you can see why that would keep the movie going. Oh and he didn't say songs, he said spiders and trolls.
[quote="Tartorus":2na4tg1f]You could have the dwarves just be totally pissed or roll their eyes when the elves are singing to give it some sort of realism too. A lot of people will be thinking, god this is stupid, and you can see why that would keep the movie going.[/quote:2na4tg1f]

I wouldn't mind the songs being cut, to be honest. They're not terribly important. However, given the more serious nature of the films, I doubt they'll be included.

[quote:2na4tg1f]Oh and he didn't say songs, he said spiders and trolls.[/quote:2na4tg1f]

But I did say songs. We're two different people, so we don't have to say the same thing.
Yes you do.
Are you trying to be funny?
Yeah. It didn't work it looks like.
Fair enough.
I still think with regards the WC and the Necromancer that the story arc for it and the story arc of the quest for Erebor will not only be interwoven but the success of the Quest arc will depend on the success of the WC. It may not be entirely canon (although Gandalf mentions in UT that if the dragon had remained alive Sauron would have made evil use of him) but it is how films are usually written, it would be unthinkable for a screenwriter to have a film with 2 separate story arcs that don't affect one another.
[quote="pettytyrant101":2xvnc0db]it would be unthinkable for a screenwriter to have a film with 2 separate story arcs that don't affect one another.[/quote:2xvnc0db]

The Two Towers got buy with very little interaction between storylines: only a few mentions of Frodo and Sam while in Rohan, and vice versa. Granted, TTT was in the middle of the far more cohesive FotR and RotK, but there will be large gatherings of characters at the beginning of The Hobbit and at the Battle of the Five Armies. I think it would be possible to show simply two fronts in the greater war against evil without a ton of involvement between the two.

Dialogue about how the Necromancer is making Mirkwood dangerous (which would be taken from the book IIRC) and/or Gandalf mentioning Smaug during the White Council would be sufficient to tie to the two together during the middle portions.
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