Thread: Lets talk directors vision
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Btw, as is well known, JRRT tried to LotRize The Hobbit himself - and gave up the attempt. Why? Because The Hobbit is excellent as it is. JRRT (though reluctant to accept the fact) conceded he could not make The Hobbit something it wasn't. I'm sad JRRT grew to dislike so much of what he wrote. In the end, I guess he wanted to be seen as someone of highest literary merit. I, however, think The Hobbit is a brilliant fairy-tale and has enormous literary merit. It is wiser than the works of many of the literati. You know the ones. The ones that generally take themselves far too seriously. You'll recognize them when you see them, their heads tend to be buried up their bum-holes - apparently seeking the source of their sunshine. Hey! I've read plenty of stuff that takes itself seriously, some good, some shite. I prefer The Hobbit. It's the BEST.
I certainly agree that the filmmakers will likely go to some length to tie together the two strands of the story. I was surprised some weeks ago to read a fan theory on TORn suggesting that the leader of the goblin/warg faction at the Battle of the Five Armies might be led by one of the Nazgul in order to further integrate the story. Now I have no idea if the filmmakers would do something like that, and after consideration I should not be surprised if they do, but I think that there are more modest steps that could be taken even if they want to integrate the story.
Or, of course, they could just stick to making The Hobbit like the title implies they're doing.
There is significant difference between what I think [i:ti4depwp]should[/i:ti4depwp] be done, Odo, and what I think [i:ti4depwp]will[/i:ti4depwp] be done.
[quote:ti4depwp]Btw, as is well known, JRRT tried to LotRize The Hobbit himself - and gave up the attempt. Why? Because The Hobbit is excellent as it is.[/quote:ti4depwp]
Agreed. I actually prefer the high style of LotR to the fairy tale nature of The Hobbit, but that does not in any way diminish my love for The Hobbit. Both stories are excellent in their own way, and the diversity of genre within the legendarium is a strength of it, not a weakness.
Unfortunately, the same team (PJ, Fran Walsh, and Philippa Boyens) plus GDT are working on the scripts. I shudder to think of what they have decided "has" to be different or what parts are "no-brainers" to cut. (Note: I'm not saying that nothing should be changed or cut, but they have a track record of going way beyond what is necessary.)
[quote="pettytyrant101":kv8cb7tz]Just wish if they wanted to write a fantasy they'd bugger off and write their own and stop rewriting Tolkiens![/quote:kv8cb7tz]
You speak like a sage! I call it illicit trading on someone else's fame! Cheap and nasty idea, no matter how much money they make, or how much hubris they bring to the project per their unholy [b:kv8cb7tz]"Brand New Much Improved Hobbit."[/b:kv8cb7tz]
Part of me thinks that they are incapable of writing original fantasy, but I really can't say. However, I think it is rank intellectual laziness (and perhaps even dishonesty) to take advantage of an existing fandom the way they did.
I don't think they're being pressured into anything. If you listen to the Director/Writer's commentary on the LotR EEs you begin to get a sense of their mindset concerning the original text. When they claimed that it was necessary to change the story because "what would it have been like otherwise", I felt really lost. The "otherwise" is [i:2pgofhe2]right there in the book[/i:2pgofhe2], which is what they're supposed to be using as a basis! I think it's clear that they were more concerned with telling their own story (or at the very least, LotR the way they wish it was) than telling Tolkien's story.
Also, I find the idea of witches a bit... ah.... ...stirring... They have loose morals, or so it's said... Oh! All right! I've got the hots for Phillipa.... this is sooooo embarrassing... Are you happy you got it out of me, Eldo! ...
Anyhow I'm sure Philippa would do just fine with the script if someone like me was on top of her, and not some Dark Sorcerer... [b:cz8lkgiv][i:cz8lkgiv]Over [/i:cz8lkgiv][/b:cz8lkgiv]her! I meant [b:cz8lkgiv]OVER [/b:cz8lkgiv]her!
Okay, you're right. Let's burn those bitches....!
(I'm definitely crabbit now! Your fault, Eldo, your damn fault!)
Nope, though I've heard many good things about it (and GDT's other movies), which is encouraging. However, the script will limit what he can do, though I do believe that he is involved with it, which is probably good.
[quote:21y0ddpa]I don't doubt that there will be alterations due to the adaptive process, but unless you think it's going to be less than 50% faithful to the book (like Wizard of Oz or Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, or some of the Potter films (GoF)) I don't see the point of preemptively complaining about the alterations. [/quote:21y0ddpa]
I think you're right that we should wait and see, but I'm not terribly optimistic. I hope to be pleasantly surprised though.
[quote:21y0ddpa]As far as I'm concerned, the track record of Jackson and his team is excellent, with a rather high percentage of faithfulness to LotR--FAR more then one gets from most from most adaptations.[/quote:21y0ddpa]
They were able to throw in lots of pieces, yes, but a faithful adaptation is more than just getting more than X% of the scenes in the book carried over. They changed and added on many fundamental levels. The percentage of faithfulness is misleading when you consider how different so many of the characters were.
At this point I'm not terribly surprised, actually. I was when I saw a whole thread full of it once, but I suppose I'm desensitized to it now. I don't really agree, but it's okay.
[quote:2pnnbzeb]Anyhow I'm sure Philippa would do just fine with the script if someone like me was on top of her, and not some Dark Sorcerer... Over her! I meant OVER her! [/quote:2pnnbzeb]
Now you're getting creepy.
Oh Eldo. [i:5jrbbxvg]"Infatuation". [/i:5jrbbxvg]I mean - [i:5jrbbxvg]really...! [/i:5jrbbxvg]Lah-de-dah! You and your big words. How are you ever going to meet a beautiful elf maiden and woo her, if your only weapon is [i:5jrbbxvg] 'science' [/i:5jrbbxvg] or "intellect"? It'll never work.
[i:5jrbbxvg]YOUNG MODERN THINKING MAN: Greetings fair maiden.. no, I mean - Hello my intellectuial equal. I'm attracted to you, like hydrogen and oxygen molecules... No, that's no good... I'm trying to find suitable words to woo you with... Look I'm not infatuated with you... perish the thought... Ah! Did you know that love doesn't exist... Ah! I do have a suppressed biological interest in you - while respecting you as my equal, and I'm not planning to get into your clothing... I mean... I think we should form a platonic relationship at first. Then after awhile, if both parties agree to mutually beneficial terms, we will indulge in sex. Once with me on top. Once with you on... We will toss a coin to see who is on top first.... No, that doesn't sound quite right..."
BEAUTIFUL MAIDEN: "*+^# off, Dork!" [/i:5jrbbxvg]
The above is a cautionary tale. It happened to a friend of a friend of mine. (Oh all right, it was me).
This is how I wooed my wife:
[i:5jrbbxvg]Odo: Hey gorgeous. Want to have sex?
(Future) Wife: Oh all right, so long as it doesn't take too long. I've got teaching rounds and I'm still trying to finish my degree."
Odo: No worries love. I'll be quick."[/i:5jrbbxvg]
[i:5jrbbxvg]After[/i:5jrbbxvg] that, we fell in love.
So Eldo, forget science.
(I do apologise if what I wrote above has little to do with what you meant. Sometimes the creative in me is very overpowering, and once it clicks in, anything might come out! )
Anyhow - I love Philippa with full blown naturalness. Keep your big words to yourself in future.
I don't doubt that there will be alterations due to the adaptive process, but unless you think it's going to be less than 50% faithful to the book (like Wizard of Oz or Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, or some of the Potter films (GoF)) I don't see the point of preemptively complaining about the alterations. As far as I'm concerned, the track record of Jackson and his team is excellent, with a rather high percentage of faithfulness to LotR--FAR more then one gets from most from most adaptations.
PS: That WAS a bit creepy Odo .
Perhaps they took some parts of the book as "inspiration", but they bloated them almost beyond recognition by making them defining aspects of the characters. Like Aragorn, who in the book suffers some brief self-doubt in the early chapters of The Two Towers, is defined and crippled by his self-doubt for almost the entire film trilogy. Or Denethor, who in the book lost his mind after the apparent death of his son, but in the movie was a nutjob from the moment we first see him. Or Elrond, who in the book doesn't fully approve of his daughter marrying a human, but in the movie deceives Arwen in order to separate the couple.
I can go on, if you'd like.
But I digress, and we've already beat this death on other threads .
It took the apparent loss of [i:1o77hpyo]both[/i:1o77hpyo] his sons in the book to make him lose his mind. But you are right, this has been done to the death.
The book is awesome anyways!! They shouldn't even think about changing it and making it better because the book is so AWESOME. Which is why I am scared shitless. I really want them to stick to the book even if it risks lack of publicity income. Just because.
Yup. The movie is going to be awful. I just know it.
Err....ah...um...? Tartoros, do you WANT the songs in, or do you NOT want the songs in?
(NB The sense of [i:2behvktv]raging against the machine[/i:2behvktv] that shines forth in your delightful ranting, however, I do find [i:2behvktv]very much [/i:2behvktv]to my taste. There is just [i:2behvktv]not enough[/i:2behvktv] ranting going-on on this forum, I feel. Eldorion, though a Purist, is often far too polite about it. Mind you, Mr Tyrant's sheer crabbitness is always refreshingly uplifting ).
[quote="Tartorus":jnpesv1l]They shouldn't even think about changing it and making it better because the book is so AWESOME.[/quote:jnpesv1l]
Well they're going to have to change things, that's how it works when you're switching mediums. I just hope they don't change things because they're trying to make the story "better".
[quote:jnpesv1l]Yup. The movie is going to be awful. I just know it. [/quote:jnpesv1l]
Even though I'm not that optimistic about the chances of The Hobbit being a good/faithful adaptation, I think they'll be some pretty awesome movies. There's a difference, I think. Even if they're nothing like the book, I expect I'll be entertained when I'm sitting in the darkened theatre two to three years from now.
I've made it a mission of sorts to combat the "rabid Purist" stereotype as often as I can. I also find that people generally respond better and more rationally to politeness.
As to your scurrilous accusation of me being "crabbit" Odo I'm sure I never used to be, I think though I can pinpoint the exact moment it happened, when the wind changed and it stuck, it was the day I walked out the cinema having seen the abomination that was TT. Been crabbit ever since, so for me TH will either tip me over the edge (in which case you will need to think of a new Scots word to describe me) or cure me. So I've a lot resting on this film.
As to my wisdom, Eldo - I have my own brand! I [i:2c9y9ncq]think for myself[/i:2c9y9ncq], that's why I [i:2c9y9ncq]am[/i:2c9y9ncq]! (Indeed, I think Wise Odo talks a lot of rubbish, to be painfully frank! Some day I'll rub it right in his face! I will! I'm not just blowing hot air here!)
I see that many Tolkien fans want the Hobbit movies to have a (to varying degrees) different "feel" from the LOTR movies due to the fact that it is indeed a different book. I totally respect this and would never criticize a fellow Tolkien fan but I completely disagree. After all, like another fan posted, the books are different but the world and many of the characters and themes are the same. Also, in my opinion, Peter Jackson did such a beautiful job with LOTR that I don't know why one would want to stray from it.
Also I see that many fans are firmly set against the concept of "bridging the gap" between The Hobbit and LOTR. Again I disagree and think this would be marvelous IF THEY COULD PULL IT OFF. I do not deny this would be challenging due to the significant time gap and relative lack of source material from this time period. Being a huge Aragorn fan, I would love to see his youth (arrival at Imladris, years as a ranger, campaigns in Rohan and Gondor...). I realize these events have little to nothing to do with the Hobbit but if they do not appear here, they won't appear anywhere.
[quote:10pr8xnc]in my opinion, Peter Jackson did such a beautiful job with LOTR that I don't know why one would want to stray from it.[/quote:10pr8xnc]
I too think he did a good job, though there are places where I think he could have done better. As it is, especially since PJ wasn't perfect, I would like to see The Hobbit be its own story rather than LotR: The Prequel. I don't see why TH and TLotR should be the same sort of story, but it may be that I just like variety.
[quote:10pr8xnc]I realize these events have little to nothing to do with the Hobbit but if they do not appear here, they won't appear anywhere.[/quote:10pr8xnc]
The movie-fanboy within me would like to see lots of different things on screen, but without any coherent narrative you have no real movie. This is why I hated the idea of the bridge movie: it was shaping up to be a bunch of unrelated or semi-related stories that would be collected into an anthology of sorts and then passed off as a real movie. I think restraint in storytelling is a very good quality: sometimes we just need to deal with not seeing everything and not stretch out the narrative too far. Tell a good, compelling story, but don't get bogged down too much in all the backstory.
^ My two cents.
Anyway, I quite agree with you Ancalagon, that Jackson did a brilliant job with LotR. But I do think The Hobbit films should respect the difference in the tone of the books. As it really is going to be mostly Bilbo's version of events, I don't particularly see a problem with that. And as I think the tone evolves in the last chapters of The Hobbit anyway into something more like LotR (the Battle of 5 Armies etc), I think it should segue nicely into LotR.
Just wishful thinking I guess
I concede there are times when some lateral thinking is called for though, especially when people insist I apologize for something I've said. If confronted by such a situation, I state that [i:qepjoq6k]clearly[/i:qepjoq6k] I made some kind of typogaphical error, and that the person I offended should have understood what I [i:qepjoq6k]meant [/i:qepjoq6k]not what I [i:qepjoq6k]said[/i:qepjoq6k].
Or if it's a question of me (seeming) to be wrong about something: well, the point is, I wasn't [i:qepjoq6k]really [/i:qepjoq6k]wrong, it just seemed like I was wrong [i:qepjoq6k]on the surface [/i:qepjoq6k], for the English language can be tricky at times, and any given English phrase is open to all sorts of interpretations, and so is it any wonder some people think I've got things wrong at times - but they're wrong!