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Thread: Should Legolas be in the Hobbit

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Bottom of Page    Message Board > The Hobbit (Movie) > Should Legolas be in the Hobbit   [1] [2] [3] [4] >>
Ok, this seems to be a big(ish) issue, and i want to know what you think about it...
Legolas is son of Thandruil (sorry for spelling) and wasn't really created until the LOTR, but even the most unknowledgeable LOTR fans will know that "hey he's from Mirkwood, why isn't he there?" Taking that into consideraton, do you think Jackson and Del Torro added him? not cuz of ORlando... but because of the character?
Personally, I think it would be interesting, a bit of a connection to LOTR. What do you think?
Personally, it wouldn't bother me to see Orlando as Legolas again (I think it was Orlando's best film role so far). But it probably wouldn't be a very substantial part unless they weave him into the White Council vs Sauron storyline. As that storyline is likely to be in the two part film, it really does provide an opportunity to give Legolas and Aragorn substantive parts without altering the story significantly, which I would enjoy very much.

[b:1m071mwd]GB[/b:1m071mwd]
I really don't want to see Orlando again. That is why I'm mainly against the idea. In my opinion, Bloom isn't all that great an actor, and I agree with GB about LOTR being his best film. But LOTR was really his first big film. So he was young and inexperienced, and yet he thought he was awesome. I don't know if he has changed at all, but the thought of Bloom being Legolas again just makes me cringe.
Legolas was a great character, and the movie really dumbed him down. I understand that they had to do that, since they cannot correctly develop 20 characters. But his role was reduced to stating the obvious, offering help sometimes, and kicking ass.

But, other than my thoughts on Bloom, I am ok with the idea of the CHARACTER being in the film, but not too much. We don't want him to be too involved with the high matters of the world. He never really did that stuff until LOTR. But I guess I wouldn't mind seeing him in Mirkwood somewhere.
I think Legolas provides an excellent Cameo apperance. A little nod for fans who are paying attention. Past that, no.
There are more than enough major players in the primary Hobbit Storyline. And for the White Council line? I think Gandalf, Saruman, Galadriel, Elrond, Cirdan, and any other key players I missed will be more than enough to fill that sorty line. Devoting the time and energy to develop Legolas more will either wreck the story, or wreck the character. Neither of which I want to happen.
I think the biggest difficulty in getting Legolas in the movie is that Pirates 4 is slated for filming starting at the same time, and Bloom can't be in two places at the same time. Sure, he could fly down to New Zealand for a scene or two in a cameo, but he's supposed to be part of the main storyline of the second film - the hunting of Gollum; he remembers watching over Gollum during his tenure in Thranduil's cells.

If they film them how they did last time - mixed up, out of order, both films at once, Bloom is going to have trouble acting in both The Hobbit and in Pirates.
Now that I think about it I don't think I'd mind Aragorn and Legolas so much in the second film, atleast not if they were part of the Hunt for Gollum like you said Marandahir.
I guess my main problem is just not having characters pushed into scenes and quests they have no business being in. :?
I really agree with Beren btw I can't stand Bloom in the LotR, he spoils a great character in the LotR films. His acting is too obviosly exaggerated and it feels really wooden. He says very little and when he does he tries to be overly clever. I kinda like the rivalry that is created between Gimli and Legolas in the LotR but it also refracts from Legolas' true character. He is depicted as a sort of simple-minded, silent type in the films and he always has something to say about Gimli's failure which really annoys me. I don't really think he should feature in the Hobbit but a short clip, (like many of the people on this subject have commented the outcome should be) would be fine maybe just for continuety purposes, bit like an easteregg effect in Tv series'. Aragorn maybe should feature in the film aswell, at Rivendell, but would that also mean Arwen might have to feature?
I'm not 100% sure where Arwen was when the Hobbit was taking place. Here are the dates:
Hobbit: 2941-2942
Aragorn's 1st meeting with Arwen: 2951
Aragorn's 2nd meeting with Arwen: 2980

In Aragorn's first meeting with Arwen, he marvels that, although he grew up in Elrond's house, he has never seen Elrond's daughter before. Arwen explains this by telling him that she has spent many years with her "mother's folk" in Lorien, and has only "lately returned to visit [her] father again." The word "lately" is what everything hangs on. If she met Bilbo when he came through, then she had to have been in Rivendell at least 10 years when she met with Aragorn. Personally, I find it hard to believe that even an elf would call 10 years ago "lately," and even harder to believe that Aragorn and Arwen would have lived at the same place for 10 years and would not have seen each other.
So, based on this, I do not think we should see Arwen in the Hobbit.
I agree with you Beren, but they found a way to have a lasting relationship during the LOTR, so they could do it again in the Hobbit, just for a bit more of a backstory... but i don't think they really need it. And i agree with most of you,that Legolas should be a camio. Just to please Orlando and Legolas fans (like myself) alike
If Legolas has a cameo, he definately should be second fiddle to Thranduil. Maybe standing at his side, offering advice what to do with these captured dwarves, or something like that
Thoughts on the actor in question aside, I definitely think that just from the viewpoint of the storyline the Legolas character should have at minimum a small part somewhere in the movies. He is the son of King Thranduil, who is an important character in the scene where the dwarves are imprisoned, and it would really help to tie Legolas and his father together if they were seen together a few times. As a prince of the woodland realm, logically he would have been somewhere around there.
When I first heard there was to be a hobbit film I immediately wondered weather Legolas would feature via a cameo. I thought it would be a nice easter egg for the fans, however my initial thoughts were towards a brief sighting at Thranduils side during the repeatedly interupted feats.

But now that I think about it, would Legolas be expected to play any role in the battle of 5 armies? After all looking back through Middle earths history It doesnt appear that the Elven lords had any qualms about sending thier children into battle, and obviously, his appearance at the council of elrond in tLotR indicates that his council is held quite highly by his father. So would he not perhaps take the role of Thranduils herald?

Also I was under the assumption that Gollum was held in mirkwood much later than the events of the hobbit, and so any inclination towards such an event would require the infamous bridging movie to make an appearance.
I also was under the assumption that Gollum was held there later than during the events of the Hobbit. However, as Legolas, so I have heard, was most likely born some time around the era of the Watchful Peace, he would have probably lead patrols and such by this time. So what I have wondered for a while is why none of the Mirkwood patrols encountered the dwarves before the dwarves came bumbling into their midst? It would be entirely possible to slip in a Legolas cameo in a patrol that spots the dwarves, and I tend to agree also with the people that said Legolas would probably have taken part in the battle of five armies. As the only child of Thranduil we hear about from Tolkien, he would have been at his father's side a great deal.
Yes, if he is in the film, then he should be in the battle. But I don't think that he should be given the part of the Herald. That would be giving him WAY too much screen time (with that, the battle, him in Thranduil's castle, and possibly in Mirkwood). We don't want him to turn into a main supporting character. I wouldn't mind seeing him in Thranduil's court and at the battle, but no more. Of course, because he'd probably be played by Bloom, I cringe at the fact of him being a hero during the battle (which they will almost certainly make him do).

Also consider Bloom's schedule. From IMDB (which isn't always reliable):
Fools Rush In (details only on IMDbPro)
The Red Circle (2011) (pre-production) (rumored) .... Corey
The Cross (2010) (pre-production)
Sympathy for Delicious (2009) (post-production) .... The Stain
Main Street (2009) (post-production) .... Harris Parker

It seems as if he has a busy 2010-2011 schedule. He probably wouldn't be able to fit in more than a cameo.
I agree. Making him Herald would give him too much importance since the herald is not usually the same person as the prince. He could potentially be one of his father's councilors though, and a council session of some sort would be ideal for a short cameo.
The more people talk about it, the more I agree with them. Camio is enough, because i don't want to see a repeat in LOTR where he was the hot elf who did cool stuff. Just glimses would make me happy, and i'm sure the audience as well. Also, who wouldn't want to go back to middle earth? I think Orlando would take up a camio role in a heart beat, if he can, and yes, camio will probably be all he can manage.
When I said that about the imprisoning of Gollum, I was still under the assumption that the second film would including bridging material as well as the end of the Hobbit. Now that that's been deconfirmed, I'm all for a cameo. Even appearing in the Battle of Five Armies would be fine, though it could be difficult for Bloom, especially if the thing about Pirates 4 being filmed at the same time is true.
I will not be very surprised if the filmmakers insert Orlando Bloom (or at the very least, an Orly look-alike) into the film. However, I am highly opposed to the idea of Legolas participating in the Battle of the Five Armies for two reasons. First, because I think they would probably give him some type of stunt (like they did at the Pelennor Fields), and I found that to be incredibly cheesy. Second, because I think the last thing that needs to happen in this round of adaptation is for the filmmakers to start adding stuff again (even more than they've already implied, namely, the White Council).
In short I won't mind to see Orlando if he has the time, but I do not want to see him until the books says they encounter the Wood-Elves in Mirkwood. He should not have a big part just merely a cameo. Keep to the code...um I mean the book.
I agree with you that a cameo only, and a silent one would be better. I am having a hard time with the fact that we have to look on the elves in this as an adversary rather than allies. That is mainly why I would like NOT to see Legolas involved. Also, does anyone know if GDT is planning to make the elves look the same as they were in LOTR? He can get pretty wild, and hopefully will not go the way of the rankin-bass version.
Don't worry. Del Toro has Jackson to keep him in line <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> .

[b:3ld0hhht]GB[/b:3ld0hhht]
[quote="Gandalfs Beard":mvtz3509]Don't worry. Del Toro has Jackson to keep him in line <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> .[/quote:mvtz3509]

On the other hand, I [i:mvtz3509]really[/i:mvtz3509] hope that del Toro can convince Jackson that wargs are not, in fact, giant hyenas. :roll:

I will be happy for the most part if Alan Lee and John Howe return as conceptual artists, or at least if the look of The Hobbit is consistent with that of LOTR.
I don't really like the idea of having bloom in the film but i heard you guys metion John Howe and Allan Lee, they are truelly wonderful conceptional artists. Have you guys checked out his website? I did a sort of study of his work in my GCSE art course last year and some research, aswell as painting a response. He's Canadian isn't he? His work really is genius. I really love the stuff he has done of Bilbo's House, the Shire etc, beautiful artwork. My favourite is the One called [i:22ag14t8]Gandalf Returns to Hobbitton[/i:22ag14t8] he really goe's by the illustration Tolkien left us in the books. He's my idol in Art/Graphics brilliant guy. The concepts in the LotR were great to.

Sprry It's a bit off topic I'll start a new thread if your interested in talking about him.

http://www.john-howe.com/
Actually, we do have a Fantasy Art thread B'arelyn. You can post any of your own pictures or discuss the Fantastic works of Lee and Howe (or the Hildebrandt Bros, or Frank Frazetta etc there). In fact, I would be delighted if we could get that thread moving and get more art posted on the forum :mrgreen: .

[b:2osh8esc]GB[/b:2osh8esc]
Ok will do, sorry I started a thread on this forum :roll: I was wondering can you exchange music files on this forum, stricly for suggestions sake.
No problem B'arelyn. I loved the Howe link. But if you have any of your own art to post or other artists to link to, pop on over to that thread.

We do have a music inspired by Tolkien thread here, and no problem posting links to a Musician's site or Youtube. But I think file-sharing would probably not fly on this forum <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> . We want to stay legit :mrgreen: .

Now, back to "Bloom Bashing" :P (just kidding <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> .

[b:v9imw35o]GB[/b:v9imw35o]
Ok thanks, I know what you mean, gets a bit like MSN if you start sharing files like that lol. Thanks for advice, and btw I remembered you mentioned in a post once that the image that was given to the Uruk-hai in the films were much like the drawing you had drawn before, do you have alot of connections to Art and Graphics? I'm half way through two GCSE courses in Art and Graphics atm, I wondered if you had some interests art media? Oh and also I agree we should all soon get back to bashing Orlando Bloom!
I posted links to some of my artwork on the Fantasy Art thread B'arelyn <img src='/images/smileys/smile.gif' border='0' alt='Smile Smilie' /> .

[b:2xc5c6ru]GB[/b:2xc5c6ru]
Should Legolas be in the Hobbit? Of course he should be. I also think Aragorn should be thrown in for the hell of it too. It brings a touch of the LOTR back to the film, and will be welcome with people who maybe have never read the books. :ugeek:
[quote="Indianajoe":1junwu8x]Should Legolas be in the Hobbit? Of course he should be. I also think Aragorn should be thrown in for the hell of it too. It brings a touch of the LOTR back to the film, and will be welcome with people who maybe have never read the books. :ugeek:[/quote:1junwu8x]

The Hobbit is a different story from LOTR. Adding elements of LOTR serves no purpose except to warp the story beyond recognition. We already got three movies of LOTR, I think people can handle a bit of variety. <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> And since they're calling it The Hobbit I think they should, well, try to make it The Hobbit and not "the Prequel to The Lord of the Rings". :roll:
[quote="Indianajoe":3uzptmy9] I also think Aragorn should be thrown in for the hell of it too. It brings a touch of the LOTR back to the film, and will be welcome with people who maybe have never read the books. :ugeek:[/quote:3uzptmy9]

Was Aragorn even born at this point?

If so he would be very young and I am sure it would be easy to uncover his wear abouts at the time of the book.

Lets see bilbo is about 50 when he sets out to Erebor. During the events of TLoTR aragorn is what 80ish? And Bilbo leaves the shire at 111 about 20 years before Frodo does. so that would make him about 131 during the event of TLoTR.

131-50 give or take a few years comes out to abotu 80ish so I suspect aragorn would have been either a small boy during the hobbit in which case introducing him would be some what pointless as it would just confuse people. Or he would still be a baby living in the north with his mother and father. And so could not appear anyway.

There is however the possibility that Gimli might appear again somewhat briefly, should Del Toro decide to show the origins of the quest in the blue mountains, where Gimli volunteers to go but is deemed to young at the youthful age of 80ish. I am hoping this is shown as it would help to make Gandalf seem more cunning with his ability to see the outcomes of situations rather than just magically procuring the key and the map from no where.
Elladan - according to Appendix B of [i:217dp2ey]The Lord of the Rings[/i:217dp2ey] Aragorn was either nine or ten years old (depending on when the Quest was in relation to his birthday) during the events of [i:217dp2ey]The Hobbit[/i:217dp2ey]. <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' />
It would be interesting, then, to throw in a yound aragorn somewhere, maybe in Rivendell? or near it at least. That would be interesting, to see how many people catch that its Aragorn... idk. But little bits and pieces would make it an interesting story for people who have only seen the movies
Would you suggest anything more than a brief cameo, Tinuviel; the sort of thing where Mr. Del Toro could say "oh look, that's the young Aragorn!" in the Director's commentary or something? I can't think of a way to integrate a 10 year old child into any meaningful role, especially since Rivendell is such a brief stopover.
The genie is out of the bottle regarding Legolas (Bloom did a fine job in the LOTR role and I see no reason to destroy continuity by inserting a substitute in TH) and Gimli (ditto) appearing in The Hobbit: even though we all know that neither appears in the book, you just can't ask everyone to forget the connections between two of the main characters in LOTR and people central to some of the major events in The Hobbit. It seems hard for me to imagine that Legolas, Thranduil's son, would not support his father at the Battle of Five Armies, or that Gimli would not have answered a call for aid from a group that included Gloin, his own father. I don't think that the roles should be prominent enough to distort the action, but we can't ignore the 800 pound gorilla in the room, either--Legolas and Gimli should appear in minor cameo roles, but they should nonetheless appear.

Also, it is my understanding that the later The Hobbit sequels (two, I hope) will attempt to bridge the action occuring between the two sets of films, and it would be good to bring these two characters into the renewed story line, especially Legolas, who already has a defined role regarding Gollum's capture, imprisonment, and escape from Sauron just prior to the beginning of the LOTR action.

Aragorn presents a different problem: he was only 10 years old when the events in TH ocurred, but was living in Rivendell at the time, so a short cameo is in order there as well. I think that there is more room for inclusion of the Aragorn character beginning with the events at Dol Gulder, some 12 years after the Battle of Five Armies, because a then 22-year-old budding Ranger would have been a Gandalf follower at the meeting of the White Council wherein it was decided that Sauron should be driven out of Dol Gulder (and driven, unintentionally, into Mordor). Again, based upon past performance and continuity, I see no reason to substitute for Mortensen.
Yes Legolas should be in it.

Now, what if Gimli was the spitting image of Gloin? Just think of the possibilities!

Legolas could be one of the partying elves who capture the dwarves - including, of course, Gloin! The two of them could give each other suspicious unfriendly looks at some point! And what if Legolas (merry with wine) is present and sits on Gloin's barrel before pushing it off into the water during the dwarves escape? But it wouldn't be Legolas and Gimli, now would it! It would be Legolas and Gloin!

Wouldn't fans love it? I know I would.

Regards,
Odo

Eldorion, this might upset your sense of Tolkien Purity - but it wouldn't be too un-kosher, surely?!
[quote="Odo Banks":3ehcovbx]Eldorion, this might upset your sense of Tolkien Purity - but it wouldn't be too un-kosher, surely?![/quote:3ehcovbx]

It depends. I don't think it's unreasonable to show Legolas as one of a number of elves feasting, for instance. I think giving him a significant role (more than a a couple of lines) in [i:3ehcovbx]The Hobbit[/i:3ehcovbx] would disrupt the "Tolkien Purity" though since Legolas isn't a character in [i:3ehcovbx]The Hobbit[/i:3ehcovbx].
Considering that Tolkien wrote LOTR 30 years or so after the Hobbit (correct me if i'm wrong) therefore he hadn't (or might've) come up with the characters. Therefore i don't think that it would upset the story too much if Legolas WAS A CAMIO and was seen a few times in Mirkwood, or even during the battle of five armies...
Regarding the Aragorn camio, if he was just there when Bilbo and the dwarves arrived in Rivendell, and then being called by someone, or him admiring his "ring" (i think that was a movie thing...) Little things like that to tease the audience.
And would Gimil even have come with the rest of the dwarves to fight in the battle? Is he from the (iron hills? I'm blanking on the name...)
I agree about the little (<-- operative word) things that the audience will notice, so long as they don't really affect the story. I think those would be nice (the young Estel one in particular). Gimli could possibly come to the Battle of the Five Armies - I'm not sure where he's from though. Probably either the Iron Hills or the Blue Mountains, though possible elsewhere (or even semi-nomadic).

[quote="Tinuviel":1ys4b280]his "ring" (i think that was a movie thing...)[/quote:1ys4b280]

You mean the ring that Aragorn wore? That was the Ring of Barahir, which does exist in the books, though Aragorn did not obtain it from Elrond until he was 20 - about 10 years after [i:1ys4b280]The Hobbit[/i:1ys4b280] - and did not have it during [i:1ys4b280]The Lord of the Rings[/i:1ys4b280] (the book) as he had given it to Arwen.
I am afraid Gimli could not appear at the battle of five armies, he was living in the Blue mountains at the time. It is noted in an appendix, I think, that he had wanted to go on the expedition to Erebor but he was considered too young at the age of 80ish. So the only way Gimli could appear would be if the film makers decided he had followed them, some how, in secret and decided it would be a good idea to help out at only that point. This ofc would be a rediculous thing to put into the films.

The other alternative would be his travelling to the battle of five armies with the eagles who live in the peaks of the blue mountains. But again I dont think anyone would want to see a flying Gimli being dropped into the battle by some eagles.

I had noted in a different thread the possibility that Gimli could make a camio appearance should the contents of The quest for Erebor, from the book unfinished tales, be incorporated into the films. I personally feel that it should, however there are numerous people over at the one ring.net who are of the assumption that film rights to this would never be granted by the tolkien trust or Christopher Tolkien
In reply to Elladan (RE: getting Gimli to the Battle of Five Armies):
Yes, you are right, but I can't find anything in the notes indicating that Gimli was positively doing something else during this period (check me on this), so all we need is a little literary license. Perhaps news came to the Blue Mountains, soon after the departure of Thorin and Gloin on their quest to Erebor, concerning an opportunity to recover the last of the Seven Rings of Power, taken from Thrain II at Dol Guldur almost 100 years earlier, and that Gimli was among a contingent of dwarves from the Blue Mountains who travelled to the Dol Guldur area in response, and who were there at the time of Thorin's call for help from Erebor. From soutwest Mirkwood, the arrival of Gimli and company at Erebor in time for the Battle is just as possible as the arrival of Dain Ironfoot's contingent from the Iron Hills. Now, what inconsistencies with the notes might that entail?
[quote="inaholeintheground":2zo6nmvk]we can't ignore the 800 pound gorilla in the room, either--Legolas and Gimli should appear in minor cameo roles, but they should nonetheless appear.[/quote:2zo6nmvk]

Do you have a reason for this statement other than what you would [i:2zo6nmvk]like[/i:2zo6nmvk] to happen?

[quote:2zo6nmvk]Also, it is my understanding that the later The Hobbit sequels (two, I hope) will attempt to bridge the action occuring between the two sets of films, and it would be good to bring these two characters into the renewed story line, especially Legolas, who already has a defined role regarding Gollum's capture, imprisonment, and escape from Sauron just prior to the beginning of the LOTR action.[/quote:2zo6nmvk]

There are only going to be two [i:2zo6nmvk]Hobbit[/i:2zo6nmvk] films and they are both going to deal with the events of the book plus the White Council/Dol Guldur (and [i:2zo6nmvk]possibly[/i:2zo6nmvk] a few other things from that same general time). See [url=http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2009/08/14/33139-mtv-pj-not-planning-on-third-bridge-movie/:2zo6nmvk]this link[/url:2zo6nmvk] for more.

[quote:2zo6nmvk]I think that there is more room for inclusion of the Aragorn character beginning with the events at Dol Gulder, some 12 years after the Battle of Five Armies[/quote:2zo6nmvk]

The events surrounding Dol Guldur took place before the Battle of the Five Armies and concurrently with the middle of [i:2zo6nmvk]The Hobbit[/i:2zo6nmvk]. It's what Gandalf was up to when he left Bilbo and the Dwarves just before Mirkwood.

[quote:2zo6nmvk]because a then 22-year-old budding Ranger would have been a Gandalf follower at the meeting of the White Council[/quote:2zo6nmvk]

The White Council was not a town hall. There's no indication that any humans, let alone "budding" rangers (even if they were the Heir of Isildur) attended any of the meetings, and certainly not Aragorn (for the reason in the preceding paragraph).
[quote="inaholeintheground":1a96uiu4]Perhaps news came to the Blue Mountains, soon after the departure of Thorin and Gloin on their quest to Erebor, concerning an opportunity to recover the last of the Seven Rings of Power, taken from Thrain II at Dol Guldur almost 100 years earlier, and that Gimli was among a contingent of dwarves from the Blue Mountains who travelled to the Dol Guldur area in response, and who were there at the time of Thorin's call for help from Erebor. From soutwest Mirkwood, the arrival of Gimli and company at Erebor in time for the Battle is just as possible as the arrival of Dain Ironfoot's contingent from the Iron Hills. Now, what inconsistencies with the notes might that entail?[/quote:1a96uiu4]

I have to respectfully disagree with the implication that this is a workable way to get Gimli into the story (without just tossing the established canon - in which case Gimli could simply replace one of the more obscure Dwarves). We don't know where Gimli was living - if he was in the Iron Hills (which I personally doubt) it would be possible for him to show up with Dain), but otherwise there would be no way for him to show up. The Blue Mountains are much farther away from Erebor than the Iron Hills, so he would have had to leave before any messages from Thorin could have even arrived.

There was no opportunity to recover one of the Seven Rings - it had been taken by Sauron years before and no one, not even Thorin, was foolish enough to even entertain the idea of a Dwarvish assault on Dol Guldur for more than a few minutes. There's also no way that word could have gotten to the Blue Mountains: everyone who knew anything headed east towards Erebor almost immediately after Gandalf revealed what had happened to the Ring, and it wasn't exactly a matter for idle conversation anyway.

Also, even if Gimli did somehow end up in Souther Mirkwood - he would still be several times farther away than Dain (who barely got there on time even going fast) and Thorin would have no way of knowing he was there and thus sending messages to him.

Briefly - I don't think Gimli can show up to the Battle of the Five Armies in this way. As I mentioned before, the only even remotely workable way I can think of is for him to already be in the Iron Hills.
I think it would be nice for Gimli to have a cameo (I thought my idea was clever and might work without giving Legolas too big a role) but I don't think the fellow should be present in person. I'm with Eldorion and his Purity Rules on this one. (Was Gimli really 80 at the time of The Hobbit? I thought he was much younger - maybe not yet even a twinkle in Gloin's eye?)

Odo
I am afraid I have to stick with the purity camp on this one. Whilst working extra features into the hobbit is something I would be in favour of, they have to be actual background info and not something made up on a whim by the film makers.

Were the dwarves even aware of the existence of the ring? I was of the impression it was only reveal to the heir towards the end of the current bearers life.

Also adding another cohort of dwarves to the battle wouldnt make sense as it would no longer be the battle of 5 armies.

I wish I find the source where Gimli states he had asked to go to Erebor with his father. As this implies he had been living in the Blue mountains at the start of the quest and so would have had to have left at about the same time or a short time later, and had no delays, to arrive at Erebor at the same time. I feel this definately places Gimli firmly outside the possibilities of putting in an appearance at Erebor.

Also we have to consider John Rhys-Davis. He hated wearing the prosthetics which he was allergic too they caused his face to swell and become irritated. He ceremoniously burned them at the end of the shoot and vowed never to wear them again.

So while there is an outside chance he might be convinced to put in a brief camio, I very much doubt he would choose to play any larger role especially as it is not waranted by the sources.
I would be perfectly happy with minor cameos, if there are to be any. I agree substantive things shouldn't be altered too much though. But we don't have to worry too much about The Dwarves, or others knowing about The Ring. Gandalf doesn't confirm his own suspicions until part way into Jackson's Fellowship. And he is producing, so continuity should be fairly well maintained. As for Viggo returning, it wouldn't bother me if the time frame is compressed a little to allow for a cameo as Aragorn. Much like the time frame was compressed between Bilbo's Birthday and Frodo leaving the Shire.

[b:18edds59]GB[/b:18edds59]
Oh well, then! Damn my Gimli scenario! Unless we can find documentation to the contrary, let's just have him living in the Iron Hills and arriving with Dain Ironfoot!

In reply to Eldorion:
I'll address your post from the bottom up, by your leave.
First, there indeed was a meeting of the White Council (their very last one) in 2953, Third Age, when Aragorn was 22, and about 12 years after the Battle of Five Armies; so, to borrow a phrase from Treebeard, [color=#FF0000:f4f9gmhs]a Tolkien Purist should KNOW better!!![/color:f4f9gmhs] Next, in addition to the 2941 events noted in your post (when Gandalf left The Company to aid in the expulsion of Sauron from Dol Guldur), there was [i:f4f9gmhs]another[/i:f4f9gmhs] expulsion from Dol Gulder, in 2953, in which Sauron (or, more accurately, Sauron's minions, the Nazgul) was forced to concede control of Dol Gulder to the White Council. I still believe that this fits within the "same general time" frame of "the White Council/Dol Guldur" that you noted in your post, and that Aragorn was then old enough to participate in that latter expulsion (and, contrary to your interpretation of my post, I did not intend to suggest that Aragorn was a [i:f4f9gmhs]member[/i:f4f9gmhs] of the White Council, but merely a [i:f4f9gmhs]supporter[/i:f4f9gmhs]). It has since come to my attention that Gandalf and Aragorn did not meet until 2956 (I'm surprised that you didn't catch that mistake!), but my scenario would work just as well substituting Elrond for Gandalf (both were WC members) as Aragorn's leader during these events.

Thanks for the link to theonering.net--I was disappointed to learn that Peter Jackson is limiting the project to two films and no "bridging"--but, i'm still holding out hope that this might change once the legal proceedings involving the Tolkien Estate are concluded later this month. Last, regarding the 800 pound gorilla (a metaphor, as used in the US, for something which is incapable of escaping attention), I think that the paragraph preceding the statement is pretty much explanatory, and I sincerely do not understand your puzzlement. Please clarify.
[quote="inaholeintheground":24jqotac]First, there indeed was a meeting of the White Council (their very last one) in 2953, Third Age, when Aragorn was 22, and about 12 years after the Battle of Five Armies; so, to borrow a phrase from Treebeard, [color=#FF0000:24jqotac]a Tolkien Purist should KNOW better!!![/color:24jqotac] [/quote:24jqotac]

I don't have my copy of [i:24jqotac]TLotR[/i:24jqotac] with me at the moment so I can't check this claim (I will later today when I get back home), but that's not relevant to the question of [i:24jqotac]The Hobbit[/i:24jqotac] (see below).

[quote:24jqotac]Next, in addition to the 2941 events noted in your post (when Gandalf left The Company to aid in the expulsion of Sauron from Dol Guldur), there was [i:24jqotac]another[/i:24jqotac] expulsion from Dol Gulder, in 2953, in which Sauron (or, more accurately, Sauron's minions, the Nazgul) was forced to concede control of Dol Gulder to the White Council. I still believe that this fits within the "same general time" frame of "the White Council/Dol Guldur" that you noted in your post[/quote:24jqotac]

No, there wasn't. Sauron left Dol Guldur in 2941 and declared himself openly (in Mordor) in 2951. I will verify this for you when I get home later unless someone else does so first.

[quote:24jqotac]and that Aragorn was then old enough to participate in that latter expulsion (and, contrary to your interpretation of my post, I did not intend to suggest that Aragorn was a [i:24jqotac]member[/i:24jqotac] of the White Council, but merely a [i:24jqotac]supporter[/i:24jqotac]). It has since come to my attention that Gandalf and Aragorn did not meet until 2956 (I'm surprised that you didn't catch that mistake!), but my scenario would work just as well substituting Elrond for Gandalf (both were WC members) as Aragorn's leader during these events.[/quote:24jqotac]

1. Being a supporter of the White Council does not mean that Aragorn would have attended any of its meeting, which you clearly implied in your earlier post.
2. To be blunt, I only went for the major errors since there were so many. The meeting time of Gandalf and Aragorn (which, again, I can't check at this time) is irrelevant since everything related to Dol Guldur was over in 2941.
3. Aragorn went on long journeys across Middle-earth he didn't just tag along after Elrond (or Gandalf).

[quote:24jqotac]i'm still holding out hope that this might change once the legal proceedings involving the Tolkien Estate are concluded later this month. [/quote:24jqotac]

The two parties already reached a settlement, but if anything the case will/would only [i:24jqotac]limit[/i:24jqotac] the scope of the films since the Tolkien Trust was attempting to do that. This is essentially a non-issue though (source: [url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8245300.stm:24jqotac]BBC[/url:24jqotac]).

[quote:24jqotac]Last, regarding the 800 pound gorilla (a metaphor, as used in the US, for something which is incapable of escaping attention), I think that the paragraph preceding the statement is pretty much explanatory, and I sincerely do not understand your puzzlement. Please clarify.[/quote:24jqotac]

My point was that it is your opinion that they are an 800 pound gorilla (a saying of which I am aware, incidentally). As I mentioned before I think it would require a bit of jumping through hoops to get Gimli into an appearance, and Legolas for all we know might have been left behind to mind the caves by his father.
In my opinion the Flower everything that the big actor, and I co-ordinate with Great Britain about LOTR to be its best film. But LOTR was really its first big film. Thus it was young and ????????, and still he thought that it was surprising.
In reply to Eldorion: While I appreciate the depth of your knowledge of Tolkien's works, you are misinformed regarding the date of the last meeting of the White Council being 2941; I must tell you that [color=#FF0000:37easypn]you are wrong[/color:37easypn]: the last meeting of the White Council [color=#FF0000:37easypn]definitely[/color:37easypn] took place in 2953. At that time, Khamul the Easterling, Sauron's third-in-command, led Sauron's forces at Dol Guldur. Another important feature of this 2953 White Council meeting was that Gandalf at that time first began to suspect Saruman of coveting the One Ring for himself.

Are you an associate of the webmaster of tuckborough.net? You two really should correspond regarding this issue, and a collaboration is in order, I think, but just remember: the final authority in this matter has got to be Tolkien himself. I look forward to your [color=#BF0000:37easypn]detailed[/color:37easypn] and [color=#FF0000:37easypn]referenced[/color:37easypn] reply in furtherance of my education, and would only ask that you replace the space you waste quoting [i:37easypn][color=#004000:37easypn]me[/color:37easypn][/i:37easypn] with space instead devoted to quoting/referencing [i:37easypn][color=#004000:37easypn]Tolkien[/color:37easypn][/i:37easypn]; I already know what [i:37easypn]I [/i:37easypn]said, and I'm rather more interested in hearing your opinion of what [i:37easypn]Tolkien[/i:37easypn] said.

Regarding the possibility of a third Hobbit: Legal proceedings often force the parties to be circumspect about their statements until the court issues a formal order including a pronouncement of "dismissed with prejudice" and, while I don't believe the current settlement will fall through, the parties' lawyers, if they are good ones, have probably instructed eveyone involved not to antagonize the others involved. A dismissal with prejudice certainly won't come until the hearings pending this month are either canceled or concluded. With regard to a third Hobbit, I am still of the opinion that a third "bridge" film may yet appear, especially if the planned two films are as wildly successful as the LOTR films, and because Tolkien created so much material to draw upon, even though that material exists only in the form of Tolkien's notes.
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