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Thread: Will the movies need to cater to fangirls?

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Bottom of Page    Message Board > The Hobbit (Movie) > Will the movies need to cater to fangirls?   << [1] [2]
In the final analysis, it does matter how young or old Bilbo is (and looks). I can see it as a reasonable idea to have a younger hero. Most heroic fairy stories involve young men going on quests anyway. A fifty year old does not really fit the "coming" of age tale. This is a particular quirk of The Hobbit (book). I guess it was an interesting way of doing it, but I'm not sure a modern audience would accept it. It would not resonate with young people having a 50 year old "coming of age."
I'm not sure it wouldn't resonate GP, just maybe with a different age group. If you see hobbit 50's as equivalent to the human 30's then you are looking at someone who, having once had dreams of going off and doing exciting things, suddenly finds he's getting on and he's getting comfortable in his ways, like most 30 odd year olds. But Bilbo has one last chance to actually fulfill those youthful dreams. I think plenty of people with dull jobs, a mortgage to pay, but eased by good food, and watching tv have come to accept their youthful dreams will never happen in just the way Bilbo has. Bilbo is in that position . He's not an adolescent turning into an adult, its not that sort of 'growing-up' story. Its almost more of a mid-life crisis. The child in Bilbo is his youthful dreams, to see elves and mountains and the like, what happens to Bilbo is the middle age man finds his youth again still there inside and lets it out into his stuffy middle class life- I think that's the part of Bilbo which appeals to children, and it works all the better for it coming out of an older figure than some youthful pinup.
[quote="pettytyrant101":2jafwhuf]I think plenty of people with dull jobs, a mortgage to pay, but eased by good food, and watching tv have come to accept their youthful dreams will never happen in just the way Bilbo has. Bilbo is in that position . He's not an adolescent turning into an adult, its not that sort of 'growing-up' story. Its almost more of a mid-life crisis. [/quote:2jafwhuf] This is the problem as I see it. The Hobbit is a childrens story. In my opinion, that means school age children. Say - under 18. How can they properly identify with an "old" person - that is: a 30 year old (as the actor's age or [i:2jafwhuf]look[/i:2jafwhuf] as you suggest - Blbo is around 50)? Of course, older adults will still identify with the story if Bilbo is around the twenty year mark, say, but that is becase they can "remember" being that age and have the power of nostalgia. Younger people will look at a 20 year old as being the "right" age. What I mean is, an age which is attractively 'adult' but quite within reach of them. A "midlife crisis" would be totally beyond the conception of a child. And anyway Bilbo does not go through a "midlife crisis", in a significant way he just "grows up." Anyone can see that, surely, even you Petty. A fifty year old growing up is a significant failing of [i:2jafwhuf]The Hobbit [/i:2jafwhuf]as childrens story by the way.
As I said above I don't think Bilbo does grow up in the sense you seem to mean it. He is a comfortable bachelor who once used to dream of adventures, TH is about that reawaking in him, of his rediscovering that and actually daring to live it, and he grows in strength and courage from it as the story progress and more of the old adventurous Bilbo of his youth comes out. The book has appealed to children for several generations despite it having a middle aged hobbit as its hero and I think its because children get enjoyment out of seeing this slightly stuffy hobbit come alive again.
[quote="pettytyrant101":1yxcgq38]The book has appealed to children for several generations despite it having a middle aged hobbit as its hero and I think its because children get enjoyment out of seeing this slightly stuffy hobbit come alive again.[/quote:1yxcgq38] Yes, I agree with that, but we are talking about history now. The book is about 70 years old. It needs to be modernized to please Generation 21st Century, surely. Kids are no longer interested in stories about people old enough to be their grandfathers. If you want grandfathers in the film, Petty, there is always Gandalf to play that role. But please - not the main protagonist!
I think you underestimate children. Its a modern fad to assume children only empathize with other children. Part of what story telling does is to prepare children for the day when they will no longer be children. Tolkien, even in his own time, wrote against the grain and followed his own instincts, he has been proved right to do so and I think it would be a mistake to cast a young Bilbo.
The success of The Hobbit was that it brought fairy story into a longer form. If the likes of Harry Potter had been around at the time (and I mean this broadly) the book would probably not have seen the light of day. Most young fantasy books nowadays are clearly superior, and more "relateable". I like The Hobbit because when I was young there was not much to choose from - and in its own way it works adequately as an adventure story fantasy. For me there was CS Lewis and Tolkien - not much else - except the impenetrable writers like MacDonald and Kenneth Grahame, or the superficial rubbish like Winnie the Pooh or Peter Pan. I have a romantic/nostalgic view of The Hobbit, but unlike you Petty, I also have a realistic view and have no trouble separating the two. You're wrong about children, Petty. They won't respond to an "old" Bilbo. Nor a "30 year old" Bilbo. They'll need someone they can genuinely identify with.
I'm not sure Henry would agree with you, Grey. While it is true he did not understand everything when I read The Hobbit to him, he loved Bilbo just as he was: - Jane.
The proof in the pudding is when he sees a 50 or a 30 year old Bilbo, Jane. I am ready to bet too, that The Hobbit is not Henry's favorite book.
Bilbo's personality appeals to children. He's the fun uncle (quite literally for Frodo). If they keep his personality in tact it will work fine with an actor in their 30's playing the role. In fact Ian Holm looks older than his 30's in the prologue scene from LotrR showing him finding the ring.
First of all, Odo has not hacked into my account, nor have I hacked into his! Maybe I confused everyone because I haven't mentioned [url:lwkhpvek]http://www.TheWobbitAParody.com[/url:lwkhpvek] (soon to be on Kindle) for two or three posts in a row, a new record for me. I just really like the songs, and I like the less intense nature of The Hobbit as compared with LOTR. As for Bilbo, he always seemed kind of child-like to me. No family depends on him, he has no job or financial worries, and his gardener takes care of the yard. He doesn't do a lot of "grown-up stuff" at Bag End that I can recall. Once he's carried off on the adventure he starts to have responsibilities, including the need to fight for his life and the lives of his friends. Something that Tolkien knew a lot more about than I do. Again, I'm not Odo, not that there's anything wrong with that. -Paul (no kidding!)
[quote="pettytyrant101":1wu523d3]In fact Ian Holm looks older than his 30's in the prologue scene from LotrR showing him finding the ring.[/quote:1wu523d3] Bilbo was hardly the main protagonist in LotR, Petty. Come on, be realistic. [quote="Paul Erickson":1wu523d3]As for Bilbo, he always seemed kind of child-like to me. No family depends on him, he has no job or financial worries, and his gardener takes care of the yard. He doesn't do a lot of "grown-up stuff" at Bag End that I can recall. Once he's carried off on the adventure he starts to have responsibilities, including the need to fight for his life and the lives of his friends. Something that Tolkien knew a lot more about than I do.[/quote:1wu523d3] Are you saying then that it is a "coming of age" tale - except the child looks like a fifty year old hobbit, Paul?
Bilbo certainly has child like characteristics, as well as the just being small like a child. Bilbo is comfortable in his life, like many children are (ideally). These are all traits which appeal to children and which are exemplified by the fact Bilbo is not a child. Having him young (and GP would seem to imply he wants an actor no more than their mid 20's for the role if his Harry potter statement is anything to go by) would not make Bilbo more approachable, its his personality and inherent traits which do that already. Regards LotR GP I was simply pointing out they were happy enough with an older Bilbo there and its the same people making and writting TH. I doubt you will have inspired them to change their mind.
GP- I guess I would have to go with the "coming of age" thing, although I wouldn't have used those words. PT- Bilbo's the Fun Uncle! Exactly!
I'm curious, Paul, you agree with me but would not use the words "coming of age." Is that not a little bit esoteric? As to Bilbo being the Fun Uncle - well, he's not an Uncle in The Hobbit, even if he was 60 years later. Petty, I wish sometimes you'd soften your entrenched views. An open mind is always welcome. I am not suggesting you forsake everything you hold dear about The Hobbit, but you might take a more realistic view. By PJ making Bilbo a younger hobbit, I think he would be doing Tolkien a favor. Surely when put up to serious scrutiny, the idea of a 50 year old going on such a difficult quest out of the blue is a bit silly. I only mean by today's standards. The idea was obviously acceptable at one stage, indeed for a longish time, but now we have a chance to improve on the author's work. It is 2010 Petty. You might need to look at a calendar. Your conservatism is quaint in this case, but is it an attitude that a thoughtful fan can really have much sympathy with.
Personally I don't like [i:2u98rq3e]your[/i:2u98rq3e] attiude much, GP, but be that as it may, I stand by the fact that Tolkien's book is still a huge seller even today - so clearly young readers still love [i:2u98rq3e]50 year old [/i:2u98rq3e]Bilbo, say what you will. :x
A fairly limp response, and a weak argument, Odo. A movie is not a book. And are you saying The Hobbit is as popular as Harry Potter? Clearly not when we compare sales. Perhaps you should stick with humor. You've shown thus far a less than sure hand in the more serious discussions.
TH is supposed to be an adaptation after all. Tolkien wrote a 50 year old Bilbo and thats good enough for me. Not trusting in Tokien is what lead to the worst atrocities of the LotR films- one would hope they have learned something from that expercience, even if you seem not to have GP.
Who cares if it's as popular as Harry Potter? Is this some sort of bizarre competition? We might as well say that good restaurants should use deep-frying more because McDonald's gets more customers. :roll: Also, seriously, would you mind letting go of your vendetta against Odo? Please.
[quote="Ringdrotten":27jo1xl5]Throughout the book you get the impression that Bilbo is, in fact, middle aged judging by his habits and behaviour, which are definitely coloured by that.[/quote:27jo1xl5] Agreed. A major theme of The Hobbit - perhaps [b:27jo1xl5]the[/b:27jo1xl5] major theme - is a comfortable, middle-aged individual being abruptly uprooted and thrust off into a strange new world that he has to adapt to. Making the character younger and thus less set in his ways ruins that theme, in addition to the character.
Personally I'd hate to see a young Bilbo, much more so than seeing a young Frodo. Not only would it look silly when Gandalf says: "You haven't aged a day" i FotR, (The ring's ability to delay old age would appear to have no effect on Bilbo, but a huge effect on Gollum, creating a major inconsistency) but a young Bilbo would, in my opinion, need a redesign of the whole character. Throughout the book you get the impression that Bilbo is, in fact, middle aged judging by his habits and behaviour, which are definitely coloured by that.
Couldn't agree more Ringdrotten.
As long as Bilbo looks vaguely like he did (youngified) in the murky soft-focus flashback in LotR, he will suffice. That is to say, a rather nondescript age somewhere between 30ish-late 40s. At the beginning of LotR (the films) Bilbo does look in his mid-50s or early 60s, and Gandalf's "you haven't aged a day" can be clearly taken to mean since he last saw him, not necessarily the time of "There and back Again." Only a clearly 20ish Bilbo would look completely incongruous. So if they did choose a younger actor for the part, they would have to age him slightly. An actor in his 30s to early 40s would be accepted by nearly all audience demographics. [b:pi8bvf3x]GB[/b:pi8bvf3x]
Rick Astley :x :x :x :x :x :x You mean pRick ghAstley I loved his music so much, NOT
[quote="Gandalfs Beard":5276wh9g] Only a clearly 20ish Bilbo would look completely incongruous. So if they did choose a younger actor for the part, they would have to age him slightly. An actor in his 30s to early 40s would be accepted by nearly all audience demographics. [b:5276wh9g]GB[/b:5276wh9g][/quote:5276wh9g] Exactly, a 20 some years old Bilbo would be horrible. As long as he looks about the right age (much older than Frodo), I'll be happy.
I'm not sure Grey Pilgrim has even read The Hobbit! :roll: Btw Ringdrotten I love the Avatar. Boromir (however close or not he was to book Boromir) was among my favorite movie characters. (Indeed, when I reread the book after watching Fellowship, I suddenly felt even more sad about his sad heroic death).
Yup, definitely my favourite character in the film too <img src='/images/smileys/smile.gif' border='0' alt='Smile Smilie' /> Sean Bean is an excellent Boromir, close to the book or not (I find him pretty close though <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> )
I think he was one of the better adapted characters. Actually, it would be interesting to discuss the subject... hang on... I'll just.... start...another... thread.... I....think.... .... .... ----Ha! There we go....!
So now I know how the Boromir thread came about!
If you really want to discuss the creation of the Boromir thread, you will find out that it was Ringdrotten's avatar that inspired Balin to create the thread. :lol:
That is sooo true it's actually factual! <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' />
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