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Thread: Thoughts on the new character, Itaril

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Bottom of Page    Message Board > The Hobbit (Movie) > Thoughts on the new character, Itaril   << [1] [2] [3] >>
[quote="BOrgeron":10nza4c3]Am I to understand that this “Itaril” is going to be in the Hobbit? It’s bad enough that they are going to put Galadriel in the film (a character who is not EVEN IN THE F’ING STORY), now they are making people up!!! This film SUCKS before it is even made!!! :x[/quote:10nza4c3]


Also, one more thing. I was a little too much on safety patrol duty earlier to actually read the content of your post :oops: .

You might want to look at what [b:10nza4c3]Odo Banks[/b:10nza4c3] said on the front page, of how Biblo sings of Itaril. While this character my not be directly involved in the actual plotline of the Hobbit, there is certainly room to fit this character into the story without contradicting Tolkien's lore. And really, a movie would be much less exciting if it was just the book taken word for word and put into screen, we can already simulate [i:10nza4c3]that[/i:10nza4c3] in our minds.
Yes, and if you read my post, you will see that Durin and I are on the same page regarding this question. Again, Itaril is VERY unlikely to have a role directly linked to the main adventure. Her role (if it exists at all) will be entirely within the Elven parts of the story.

BUT--don't forget to read the "Lost Story" of Itaril's true role in Middle Earth, finally revealed in ancient scrolls hidden in a buried barrel of Pipeweed :lol: : [url=http://the-hobbit-movie.com/forum/the-adventures-of-bilbo-and-itaril-434.html?view-post=6324#p6324:3hneev4a]The Adventures of Bilbo and Itaril[/url:3hneev4a]

[b:3hneev4a]GB[/b:3hneev4a]
[i:2w1rx5fx]Cheek[/i:2w1rx5fx] at warp speed! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Just pointing out that Itaril had a far greater role in The History of the Ring long suppressed by ancient scribes. No doubt Tolkien--discoverer and translator of the Red Book--would have eventually read between the lines and found the clues leading him to this latest archaeological find. A regular British Indiana Jones that old codger was. <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> :lol:

[b:271fg3us]GB[/b:271fg3us]
I do apologise. I thought you were looking for some Free Advertizing! <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> As you know, I'd never do that! ( <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> )
While we're talking about long-lost fragments, let's not forget what Tolkien had to say about expanding the story in his newly-discovered text [url=http://the-hobbit-movie.com/forum/white-council-will-wreck-hobbit-289-80.html:1wf5lpf8]The Mire of GaladriFAIL[/url:1wf5lpf8] (near the bottom of the page). <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' />
[quote="Durin":xouf2wcl]While this character my not be directly involved in the actual plotline of the Hobbit, there is certainly room to fit this character into the story without contradicting Tolkien's lore.[/quote:xouf2wcl]

Hopefully she won't present a contradiction (if she even appears), but the entire expanded Elven/White Council storyline is an unnecessary expansion of the scope of the story that dilutes the true tale: that of Bilbo and the Quest of Erebor.

[quote:xouf2wcl]And really, a movie would be much less exciting if it was just the book taken word for word and put into screen, we can already simulate [i:xouf2wcl]that[/i:xouf2wcl] in our minds.[/quote:xouf2wcl]

[b:xouf2wcl]No one[/b:xouf2wcl] (that I have ever seen) is asking for a literal translation of the book, but that doesn't mean all of us are comfortable with major changes/expansions. Changes to the story are not an all or nothing affair, at any rate.
[quote="Eldorion":wkvevkil]]Hopefully she won't present a contradiction (if she even appears), but the entire expanded Elven/White Council storyline is an unnecessary expansion of the scope of the story that dilutes the true tale: that of Bilbo and the Quest of Erebor.
[/quote:wkvevkil]
Well you never know, Del Toro and Jackson may have big plans for this movie, after all, it is two parts, and perhaps they shall make other movies that tie into this in the future? Del Toro and Jackson are smart guys, and since none of this is really mentioned in LOTR, and they consider The Hobbit to be an entry into it, they [i:wkvevkil]must[/i:wkvevkil] be doing something pretty big with the Elven/White Council storyline, even though it may be unnecessary, they may just want to introduce more Tolkien lore! Nothing wrong with that! <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' />

... That is to say, they get the main plot-line down first.

[quote:wkvevkil]
[b:wkvevkil]No one[/b:wkvevkil] (that I have ever seen) is asking for a literal translation of the book, but that doesn't mean all of us are comfortable with major changes/expansions. Changes to the story are not an all or nothing affair, at any rate.[/quote:wkvevkil]


I 'unno, [b:wkvevkil]Eldorion[/b:wkvevkil], a lot of my friends are hoping for a very [u:wkvevkil]true to the book[/u:wkvevkil] and, in my opinion, somewhat bland movie. I do not fear expansions as I do changes.
[quote="Durin":2tyali58]Well you never know, Del Toro and Jackson may have big plans for this movie, after all, it is two parts, and perhaps they shall make other movies that tie into this in the future?[/quote:2tyali58]

I think it is quite clear that they have big plans: they are effectively making "LOTR: The Prequel" and are giving us a much broader look at the politics and history of Middle-earth during the time of The Hobbit. This could be cool on some level. However, it is not what The Hobbit is about. The Hobbit is not a prequel to LOTR in the way that Jackson and del Toro seem to be treating it.

[quote:2tyali58]they may just want to introduce more Tolkien lore! Nothing wrong with that! <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' /> [/quote:2tyali58]

Fair enough, except that the White Council is mentioned so briefly by Tolkien that it's the screenwriters are going to do more fanfiction-esque 'fleshing out' than actual adapting. We'll see a lot of Jackson lore, sure, but the White Council will be necessity be relatively light on Tolkien lore.

[quote:2tyali58]I 'unno, [b:2tyali58]Eldorion[/b:2tyali58], a lot of my friends are hoping for a very [u:2tyali58]true to the book[/u:2tyali58] and, in my opinion, somewhat bland movie. I do not fear expansions as I do changes.[/quote:2tyali58]

I'm not sure why a well-made movie of The Hobbit that conserved its dramatic power to the simple yet effective storyline of Bilbo would be bland. The story of Bilbo has stood the test of time for over 70 years, and even if the filmmakers refrained from adding extraneous storylines its not like there would be no room for creativity. Changes and decisions about adaptation would still have to be made, the visual process of bringing Middle-earth to the screen would still be necessary, and the filmmakers would - undoubtedly - put their own touch on everything.
Bravo, Eldo! Adaptations often fail because film makers think they can do better - and can't! If what makes The Hobbit fun, thrilling, scary and moving is properly realized in The Movies - then the Movies won't only be 'true' but 'brilliant.'

[quote="Durin":ksuzrhoc]I 'unno, Eldorion, a lot of my friends are hoping for a very true to the book and, in my opinion, somewhat bland movie. I do not fear expansions as I do changes.[/quote:ksuzrhoc]

No one is suggesting we have someone in a chair read the book aloud, Mr Durin!

Frankly, I don't see how a true adaptation could be 'bland', unless the filmmaker isn't up to it!

NB See WHITE COUNCIL WILL WRECK HOBBIT, Mr Durin, if you want to see Wisdom and Truth,(that's if you can handle the Truth? :x )

(And to think you and I started off so well! <img src='/images/smileys/sad.gif' border='0' alt='Sad Smilie' /> )




Odo Banks
The Fundamentalist Purist People's Front
[quote="Odo Banks":10ebyrhq]
No one is suggesting we have someone in a chair read the book aloud, Mr Durin!
[/quote:10ebyrhq]
Indeed! Sometimes I just like to bring a new light unto a topic, which isn't necessarily mine own, to get some debate started. <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' />

[quote:10ebyrhq]
Frankly, I don't see how a true adaptation could be 'bland', unless the filmmaker isn't up to it!

NB See WHITE COUNCIL WILL WRECK HOBBIT, Mr Durin, if you want to see Wisdom and Truth,(that's if you can handle the Truth? :x )
[/quote:10ebyrhq]

*Chuckles* I very much think we're on the same page with this topic, Sir [b:10ebyrhq]Odo Banks[/b:10ebyrhq]! I was voicing someone else's opinion <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' />

[quote:10ebyrhq]
(And to think you and I started off so well! <img src='/images/smileys/sad.gif' border='0' alt='Sad Smilie' /> ) [/quote:10ebyrhq]

... *Offers Ale* There we go! All's fixed!
Hold your ground Durin! Don't let the Purists intimidate you with their bluster :lol: .

[b:3j313v41]GB[/b:3j313v41]
It's not bluster, it's just common sense. <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> Popular and successful stories in book form can, in the right hands, be popular and successful in movie form as well without any major changes or additions to the story. That is, in a nutshell, the concept of purism. It doesn't mean that it needs to be a "literal" reproduction of the book nor that unfaithful adaptations must be hated and destroyed. They can actually be damn good movies. I'd just rather see a good movie that is also a faithful adaptation.
Oh Thank Goodness there's a Lore Master here! Yes, Eldo, you're quite right - as you usually are in matters of Tolkien Purism (and Purity generally, I hope :oops: )

(Eldo, I don't want to spread rumors, but just between you, me and the gate post, I've heard old GB has become a Tolkien Purileist :shock: Yes, I could hardly believe it myself when I started this rumor. A cautionary tale without a doubt! It's a slippery slope, my friend, when you step through Liberalism's door, walk down the passageway to Heathenism and end up at Purilieism's sink [full of dirty dishes, no doubt]. Terrible... absolutely terrible... And I always found GB such a nice chap. It just goes to show you that you only think you know someone.... This is just between you and me though. Mustn't spread rumors. <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> )
[quote="Odo Banks":1rgwytja]Oh Thank Goodness there's a Lore Master here! Yes, Eldo, you're quite right - as you usually are in matters of Tolkien Purism[/quote:1rgwytja]

Aww, thanks Odo. :oops: <img src='/images/smileys/smile.gif' border='0' alt='Smile Smilie' />

[quote:1rgwytja](Eldo, I don't want to spread rumors, but just between you, me and the gate post, I've heard old GB has become a Tolkien Purileist :shock: [/quote:1rgwytja]

Is that like, someone who wants Tolkien's stories to be puerile? Maybe I'm mistaken, but GB has always seemed rather anti-puerileist with that meaning.
That's what GB hopes you'll think... <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> (And thanks for the spell-check. :roll: I thought it looked kinda funny! [color=#FF0040:1auatgdg]Puerileist [/color:1auatgdg]it is! :ugeek: )
He had me fooled then. He always struck me as a Tolkien-maturist (or at least a Hobbit-maturist). Was it all just clever reverse psychology?
[i:1rok3jaq]Immaturist[/i:1rok3jaq], lad! [i:1rok3jaq]Immaturist[/i:1rok3jaq]! Though this can also be translated as [i:1rok3jaq]Immapurist[/i:1rok3jaq]. Same thing at the end of the day. Liberal, Heathen, Pueralist... whatever! Actually, when you think about it, GB has a fine Collection of Evil Monikers. Not unlike Saruman with his Coat of Many Colors, now I think about it. Creep out, or what! :shock: )
Itaril yup...I think I love her mm... although I don't know her but I think she would be a lovely character!!!
and she is also a warrior!! such a nice guy!and I'm sure that she is Legolas' LOVER!!
I mean...Look!how many young elven Lord is in the Mirkwood palace?just Leggy...no one else...!but Leggy wasn't in the Hobbit book but... :?:
Oh my Goddess, they've Rumbled me, found me out!!! :shock: :mrgreen:

[b:2glqbent]GB[/b:2glqbent]

PS: I'm a Puerile/Maturist--stew on that one for a while :P
[quote="Gandalfs Beard":39lc528a]PS: I'm a Puerile/Maturist--stew on that one for a while :P[/quote:39lc528a]

A puerile Maturist I could understand, but this... :?
I like "kid's" stories with adult themes and material (i.e. fairy tales with all the naughty bits put back in). Which pretty much applies to most modern sci fi/fantasy tales these days.

[b:ezof09ib]GB[/b:ezof09ib]
Sans "naughty", that sounds like The Hobbit to me. 8-)
I wish you two would just [color=#FF0000:1l7swjrm]grow up[/color:1l7swjrm]! :x
Hey, I've got a valid excuse. 8-)
I'm an Old Testament man, Eldo, and I don't plan to spare the rod in relation to you. I feel it's my duty to whack you repeatedly! Now where's that rod? Yes, a few good whacks will surely [i:1t6lstem]learn[/i:1t6lstem] you and make a [i:1t6lstem]man[/i:1t6lstem] of you! (It was an important part of my upbringing, actually, that's why I'm so well rounded and Wise :geek: ). I'm especially looking forward to give GB a fair whacking too - he's too old to grow up or be [i:1t6lstem]learned[/i:1t6lstem] , I know, but whacking him with a nice whacking-rod will be very satisfying anyhow... yes, very satisfying... <img src='/images/smileys/vevil.gif' border='0' alt='Very Evil Smilie' />
[quote:1khvdj03]I feel it's my duty to whack you repeatedly![/quote:1khvdj03]

Is it just me or does that sound ... wrong? :?

[quote="Odo Banks":1khvdj03](It was an important part of my upbringing, actually, that's why I'm so well rounded and Wise :geek: ).[/quote:1khvdj03]

Were you raised with a literal version of the Board of Education, then? :P
Hey! While I was editing you were replying, Eldo! We were like electronic ships passing in the night! 8-)
And I edited after you edited while I was replying. :!:
What amazing confabulations! :shock:
:roll: :lol:

[b:2gcmu8eu]GB[/b:2gcmu8eu]
Alright, so I guess this Saorise girl will be playing Itaril???? Ok, I guess, she just seems WAY too young... I look older than her! And I never age!
I'm playing devil's advocate here Tin, but how can a fictional character inside a fictional book appear too young! She can be whatever age want's her to be! But naturally, if the decision had laid at my door, I would have casted you for the role!
If this Itaril crap makes it into the films, I'll jump ship and join the Purists and never forgive PJ or the other writers :x
I'm thinking the same thing Ringdrotten. This is taking it a bit too far....
Indeed. Aragorn and Arwen was ok, but this... what are they thinking? :?
Someone on another forum pointed out that the latest report doesn't say that Saoirse Ronan will play Itaril specifically, but on the other hand, she's been linked to that role before. And even if it isn't Itaril, Galadriel has already been cast, so there has to be a new role involved regardless. Either way ... this is making me start to relapse into my old cynical ways. :lol: Despite all those interviews where the writers talked about how they realized things worked better when they followed Tolkien's story, I'm afraid PJ might have taken the wrong lesson from the success of LOTR.
:roll: Sheesh guys and gals. It's not like she's going to be in The Hobbit part of The Hobbit, she's obviously going to be in the Elf parts and probably in the extra stuff that goes along with the White Council/Necromancer parts. There's no need to have a cow about it. <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> And anyone that wants to know how it REALLY happened should read The Adventures of Bilbo and Itaril thread. :mrgreen: [b:1r4hht4x]GB[/b:1r4hht4x]
[quote="Gandalfs Beard":ovrulwqo]:roll: Sheesh guys and gals. [b:ovrulwqo]It's not like she's going to be in The Hobbit part of The Hobbit, she's obviously going to be in the Elf parts[/b:ovrulwqo] and probably in the extra stuff that goes along with the White Council/Necromancer parts. There's no need to have a cow about it. <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> [/quote:ovrulwqo] Maybe this is just me, but I recall there being an elf part in The Hobbit, the book. 8-) If she only shows up in the White Council parts that's some consolation, but I'm still not big on non-Tolkien characters in Tolkien films. <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' />
Some begin to see the light of truth. Your weak and feeble words GB will not now close eyes that have begun to open!
[quote="Eldorion":2c0c2xe0][quote="Gandalfs Beard":2c0c2xe0]:roll: Sheesh guys and gals. [b:2c0c2xe0]It's not like she's going to be in The Hobbit part of The Hobbit, she's obviously going to be in the Elf parts[/b:2c0c2xe0] and probably in the extra stuff that goes along with the White Council/Necromancer parts. There's no need to have a cow about it. <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> [/quote:2c0c2xe0] Maybe this is just me, but I recall there being an elf part in The Hobbit, the book. 8-) If she only shows up in the White Council parts that's some consolation, but I'm still not big on non-Tolkien characters in Tolkien films. <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' />[/quote:2c0c2xe0] Duh! :P Of course there's an "elf part" in The Hobbit. So what if she's in the elf part? As long as she's not in The Hobbit part of The Hobbit what's the big fat hairy deal? There are more elves than Thranduil and Legolas in Mirkwood you know. It's not like she's going to tag along with Bilbo and the Dwarves. If that were the case, then I would have a problem too. [b:2c0c2xe0]GB[/b:2c0c2xe0]
Er, what exactly do you mean by "The Hobbit part of The Hobbit", then? :? I had assumed you meant the part covering the story told in the book (as opposed to the added White Council scenes), but now I don't know. However, the section involving Elves also involves Bilbo, so I'm not sure I see the distinction you're trying to make.
By "Elf Part" I mean any scene originally in the book or not that involves Elves other than Thranduil and Legolas. For all we know she could be the one with the line about Bilbo on a pony looking "delicious." That line might seem a little less..."Oscar Wilde" in that context (assuming, of course, that Jackson has that line in the script <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> ). :mrgreen: [b:10wzswi4]GB[/b:10wzswi4]
If it's a really minor role like most of the Elves in the book I wouldn't mind, but I suspect it will be a bigger role. If the leaked casting call has any validity, at least...
If it's a bigger role it will be mostly in the extraneous material anyway. Again, I don't see a problem there. There are no female characters in the book. Jackson isn't just making a film for readers of the book, and he knows he will need a few characters that women can relate to. He's got Galadriel in the White Council stuff, and quite possibly Arwen at Rivendell. It only makes sense that he would have another female Elf or two. [b:1cjof7t6]GB[/b:1cjof7t6]
[quote="Gandalfs Beard":1yvjzfyf]If it's a bigger role it will be mostly in the extraneous material anyway. Again, I don't see a problem there.[/quote:1yvjzfyf] Or PJ could increase the time given to the events in Mirkwood and insert the character there. I'd rather that not happen, but it's a possibility that - if the casting call is legitimate - appears likely. For those who don't remember, the casting call (quoted on the first page of this thread) states that the character is a guard to Thranduil, suggesting that she will appear during the part of the story where Bilbo is in Mirkwood. [quote:1yvjzfyf]It only makes sense that he would have another female Elf or two.[/quote:1yvjzfyf] I can see how it "makes sense" to PJ and the Coven, and for what it's worth I can't say I'm surprised by the decision. That doesn't mean I have to be happy with it, though. :x :P
Well it makes sense to me. :P By the way, Bilbo is said to have spent several weeks plodding around the House of Thranduil, invisible, trying to determine how to best free the Dwarves, though the book doesn't drag it out. And they make a strong appearance at The Battle of 5 Armies, though again, the book doesn't drag it out. Yes, I do expect PJ will expand a bit on the Bilbo freeing the Dwarves stuff, and a LOT of expansion on the Battle stuff :mrgreen: . But he's got to fit in all the White Council/Necromancer stuff too, so I don't expect him to go nuts on anything but the Battle sequences (which is fine by me <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> ). [b:3pi98doa]GB[/b:3pi98doa]
How do you manage to keep your optimism, GB? :lol: :P
Self delusion, thats my reckoning! <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> Isn't there supposed to be some love interest attached to this character?- if so seems unlikely it will be short or confined to the Mirkwood bit.
[quote="Eldorion":j7vwguc2]How do you manage to keep your optimism, GB? :lol: :P[/quote:j7vwguc2] Either I think like Peter Jackson or he thinks like me. :mrgreen: [b:j7vwguc2]GB[/b:j7vwguc2]
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