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Thread: Golden moments in the Hobbit?

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Bottom of Page    Message Board > The Hobbit (Movie) > Golden moments in the Hobbit?   [1] [2] >>
So, you already have one for the LotR movies, but what about the Hobbit? Obviously it's not out yet, but what golden moments do you expect/wish to see when the movies finally (hopefully) hit the cinemas?

I for one think that Thorin's last stand should be fairly golden, certainly suited for film. And, knowing Jackson's style, this is perfect material for him. Bilbo and Thorin's last talk together is even more perfect for Jackson, if the LotR movies are anything to go by. Though, this is assuming Jackson will be the director, which I guess is still not confirmed.
If they film it through a Purist lens there will be no end of Golden Moments.

I'm looking forward particularly to the scenes with the songs in. How they're handled will make or break the film. Without them --- well, I've never even hinted at this before, but I think the movies will be shite without them, an arrant insult to all Tolkien Purists. :geek:
The only Jackson films I've seen are LOTR and King Kong and I'm not convinced of his ability to convey emotion without dramatic close-ups and extremely obvious musical cues. I'll be ready to cringe when Thorin's goodbye comes up, though it's always nice to be pleasantly surprised.

As for Golden Moments, I have hope for the Barrels Out of Bond scene. I think that would be a great visual shot as well as a part of the story, and it has no fantastical elements to be ruined (like the spiders or Beorn's animals).
[quote="Odo Banks":1ev2c8x3]I'm looking forward particularly to the scenes with the songs in. How they're handled will make or break the film. Without them --- well, I've never even hinted at this before, but I think the movies will be shite without them, an arrant insult to all Tolkien Purists. :geek:[/quote:1ev2c8x3]

As a Purist ... [i:1ev2c8x3]*sighs*[/i:1ev2c8x3] 8-)
Like the way Gandalf manipulates Beorn into believing he started his adventure with a couple
of Dwarves then ends up with 12. Beorn doesnt like Dwarves so Gandalf introduces them 2 at
a time, thus keeping Beorn interested in the story and not to bombard him with a throng of
Dwarves all at once. Funny and clever <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' />
[quote="Eldorion":3u0527e3]The only Jackson films I've seen are LOTR and King Kong and I'm not convinced of his ability to convey emotion without dramatic close-ups and extremely obvious musical cues. I'll be ready to cringe when Thorin's goodbye comes up, though it's always nice to be pleasantly surprised.

[/quote:3u0527e3]
That's one way of seeing it I suppose <img src='/images/smileys/smile.gif' border='0' alt='Smile Smilie' /> Still, even though they are dramatic close-ups with obvious musical cues, I quite like them <img src='/images/smileys/smile.gif' border='0' alt='Smile Smilie' />

When Bilbo sees the treasure and Smaug for the first time should be quite good as well, hopefully they'll do both Smaug and the treasure justice visually.
The troll scene. I loved that scene as a kid and its the first direct danger Bilbo is put in. I fear it requires a belief in the written material to pull off on film and PJ doesn't have that if LotR was anything to judge by.
[quote="Ringdrotten":3sg4nxys]That's one way of seeing it I suppose <img src='/images/smileys/smile.gif' border='0' alt='Smile Smilie' /> Still, even though they are dramatic close-ups with obvious musical cues, I quite like them <img src='/images/smileys/smile.gif' border='0' alt='Smile Smilie' /> [/quote:3sg4nxys]

To each his own! <img src='/images/smileys/smile.gif' border='0' alt='Smile Smilie' /> It really is a subjective matter, as is a lot of art.

[quote:3sg4nxys]When Bilbo sees the treasure and Smaug for the first time should be quite good as well, hopefully they'll do both Smaug and the treasure justice visually.[/quote:3sg4nxys]

Definitely! And that's a place where I have to agree that music has it's place, though hopefully it wouldn't be too loud since Bilbo's still trying to sneak around. Maybe a soft soar to the theme?
[quote="Eldorion":g0diwrel] hopefully it wouldn't be too loud since Bilbo's still trying to sneak around. Maybe a soft soar to the theme?[/quote:g0diwrel]

That's a good point. Before reading that I might've liked a loud score, perhaps one similar to the scene where the Fellowship get their first look at Dwarrowdelf. After reading that though, I think some low music would help set the mood much better for the rest of the scene. I guess we'll have to wait and see <img src='/images/smileys/smile.gif' border='0' alt='Smile Smilie' />
Talking wargs! Talking giant spiders! Fourteen songs! It would be SO MUCH FUN if these iconic elements of book could show up in the movies. I'm sure I'll enjoy the movies regardless, but I would like to see the differences in style between The Hobbit and LOTR as books show up as differences in style in the movies, too. If the movies in the Harry Potter series can differ in style and still all be successful and cohesive, the same can be done with Tolkien.
[quote="pettytyrant101":3v70art1]The troll scene. I loved that scene as a kid and its the first direct danger Bilbo is put in. I fear it requires a belief in the written material to pull off on film and PJ doesn't have that if LotR was anything to judge by.[/quote:3v70art1]

I assume you are talking about the terrifying sense of danger, seeing as that is the emphasis you put on the scene. I have to disagree. The scene in the film where the Hobbits get off the road and hide from Black Rider conveyed terror and danger brilliantly.

And if you are talking about the skillful blend of terror and humour, then Jackson once again conveyed that extremely well, particularly when Merry and Pippin had been captured by the Orcs.

[b:3v70art1]GB[/b:3v70art1]
[i:2izlitc2]Oh! My gawd, you're right on Eric,
(At last some words not esoteric!)
The sad thing: there are just fourteen!
But fourteen must do! (Or that's my dream!)[/i:2izlitc2]

JRRT: "Songs from Beyond the Grave." Book Thirty Seven, History of the Poems of Middle Earth, Edited by Christopher Tolkien.

Wise Odo

Okay, okay - not one of JRRT's better poems from his After-He-Died period - but it does make a salient point!
[i:ozicrwna]GB always seems to stick his nose in,
Just as I am putting my prose in,
And just the same, my poetry,
GB always pushes in front of me!

Big hairy bully, hirsute freak,
I'm so angry I can barely speak,
Butt-in GB, that's how I name thee -
Am I insulting? Who could blame me?"[/i:ozicrwna]

Song on Behalf of an Injured Party: Betty White.

Wise Odo

It's amazing what you can channel up when you don't put much effort into it! :?
I actually like GB when he shows his bullish side! :oops:
:oops: Charmed I'm sure, Milady Mirabella. <img src='/images/smileys/smile.gif' border='0' alt='Smile Smilie' />

[b:lrgni9bp]GB[/b:lrgni9bp]
Don't seem to remember mentioning terror of any sort GB- danger yes- but for the troll scene to work relies on having the guts to stick with how Tolkien portrays the trolls (a far cry from PJ's LotR trolls) and especially the dialogue. PJ showed in LotR he has little to no faith in Tolkiens dialogue, or else why did he alter, modernize and often completely rewrite it?

As to the Black Rider scene PJ stole that almost shot for shot from Bakshi's version and if you would care to read the actual passage in FotR GB you will find its nothing like what PJ (or Bakshi) shot. And since when did the terror of the Nazgul get fooled by throwing something into a bush? There Ringwraiths- not a puppy!

I stand by comments!
At least we've got Politics and Castaneda. :mrgreen:

[b:i1hiot8x]GB[/b:i1hiot8x]
Indeed GB you are somewhat of an enigma to me- how someone can display such otherwise reasoned and clear thinking and then have the wool pulled over their eyes by a snake-oil salesman like PJ is beyond me.
Maybe he just has a taste for snake oil? Maybe he uses it to oil his body (- of hair? :? )

Golden Moment?

What about when the goblins capture Bilbo and Co - all that stuff about big cracks and whips and "Ho ho, my lad!"

I hope they don't leave anything of that precious scene out!

Really looking forward to the Riddle Game too. One of the classikest of classic scenes in all of Literature.
[quote="Odo Banks":38c7wrtd]

Really looking forward to the Riddle Game too. One of the classikest of classic scenes in all of Literature.[/quote:38c7wrtd]
Ah, yes! That one should be great. And I also can't see why they're going to leave anything out if they're doing it in two movies, especially when the LotR books only got one movie each, and they are much bigger books.
It's not the [i:1ibhebz3]"Oh we* now have enough time to film the whole book," [/i:1ibhebz3]idea that worries some of us. It's the: [i:1ibhebz3]"Oh we can now fit in lots of added made-up stuff, oh goody gumdrops!" [/i:1ibhebz3]that frightens us. In fact, we fear even worse: [i:1ibhebz3]"Oh let's cut out good bits while we're at it so we can make up even more made-up stuff!"[/i:1ibhebz3] We fear it will be the LotR Movies all over again, you see!


*"We" equals decent respectable Tolkien Fans (sometimes called Purists).
:lol: Well, I can understand that if Jackson will be the director, he wasn't afraid of the changing the original story in the LotR movies. But I really can't see any good reasons why he should do that with the Hobbit. After all, it's just a quite small book, and the events in it shouldn't be hard to put into film without changes.
Well said, Ringdrotten! If PJ can stick to the actual Book (and I doubt it <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' /> ) then he might do a reasonable job. It's not ABSOLUTELY impossible anyhow...
[quote="Ringdrotten":ok1vt5v1]:lol: Well, I can understand that if Jackson will be the director, he wasn't afraid of the changing the original story in the LotR movies. But I really can't see any good reasons why he should do that with the Hobbit. After all, it's just a quite small book, and the events in it shouldn't be hard to put into film without changes.[/quote:ok1vt5v1]

Because he and his co-writers (let's not forget that Fran Walsh and Philippa Boyens share responsibility for the films; whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is up to you) thought they could tell a better story than Tolkien did. That's why they made the characters more "human", added more "drama", etc. They're really incredibly stuck-up in the EE documentary features: alternately talking about their great debt to Tolkien and then saying how the story as told in the book just isn't good enough for them to film. It doesn't even have to do with the medium, they just thought some parts weren't interesting enough!

Examples include:

[list:ok1vt5v1][*:ok1vt5v1]Finding Aragorn too unchanging for their tastes.[/*:m:ok1vt5v1]
[*:ok1vt5v1]Finding Faramir too unchanging for their tastes (one wonders if they actually paid attention to the parts with Faramir)[/*:m:ok1vt5v1]
[*:ok1vt5v1]Finding Frodo entering Shelob's Lair with Sam not dramatic enough[/*:m:ok1vt5v1]
[*:ok1vt5v1]Finding Frodo never losing trust in Sam to imply that he never makes mistakes[/*:m:ok1vt5v1]
[*:ok1vt5v1]Finding the Scouring of the Shire anti-climactic (did they even realize that it IS the climax of the story?)[/*:m:ok1vt5v1]
[*:ok1vt5v1]Etc., etc.[/*:m:ok1vt5v1][/list:u:ok1vt5v1]
Ringdrotten said; "he wasn't afraid of the changing the original story in the LotR movies. But I really can't see any good reasons why he should do that with the Hobbit."

There was no good reason to do it to LotR but that didn't stop them. For the reasons Eldo gives above and a host of others PJ and the Coven seem to think Tolkien had a nice idea but it could be a lot better if you simplified all the story, took all the good bits out and replaced them with action scenes, then rewrote all the characters as they like.

They did it to LotR I see no evidence hinting they are not planning to do exactly the same with TH- in fact with the WC stuff even more so. At least 50% of these 2 films is going to be entirely made up stuff by the people who brought us Legolas surfing on a shield whilst killing orcs and Frodo choosing Gollum over Sam as his best friend to name but two- it will be a disaster.
Lets just pray that PJ has learned some humility in a decade...

But I'm most excited for the battle of 5 armies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PJ's good at battles if nothing else!
Oh, you are all so pesimistic :lol: I agree a little bit though, they did change an awful lot, and they didn't have very good reasons for many of the changes.

What I think they meant about the Scouring being anti-climactic though, is that after the final battles and the crowning, introducing the audience to a whole new plot and battle would actually be anti-climactic, and I must say that I agree with them that it wouldn't have worked well on film for those who hadn't already read the book (after all, they were making a film for everyone, not just the readers, hence the many changes that we don't like).

What you say about them including the White Council is indicating that they're going to change a lot/make stuff up, I think you're quite right there. Hadn't thought about it that way. Hopefully they'll be happy with making up their own WC story, and leave Bilbo's story alone, unchanged!
Pessimists!? REALISTS! :x
[quote="Tinuviel":3n28q4fo] But I'm most excited for the battle of 5 armies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PJ's good at battles if nothing else![/quote:3n28q4fo] Yep! And this time, he won't even have to make up the Elf army, it's already there :lol:
[quote="pettytyrant101":1g99grmu]There was no good reason to do it to LotR but that didn't stop them.[/quote:1g99grmu] To be fair there were changes and cuts that had to be made, so it's not like PJ was all bad. He was also singlehandedly responsible for saving LOTR from the horrid one-film idea that Miramax had (no Saruman, no Merry and Pippin, no Rohan, Boromir and Eowyn as siblings, and probably more) and deserves credit for that. He's hardly the devil. [quote:1g99grmu]They did it to LotR I see no evidence hinting they are not planning to do exactly the same with TH- in fact with the WC stuff even more so.[/quote:1g99grmu] They've gotten a measure of validation. They were able to win over the majority of the Tolkien fandom as well as a number of new fans (who probably would have been put off by the relative dearth of battles in the book) and have amazing success. They don't have to even pay lip service to the idea of not making changes, much less show actual restraint like they did with FOTR.
[quote="Ringdrotten":f1g2j452]Oh, you are all so pesimistic :lol: [/quote:f1g2j452] I can't deny that. :lol: I can still enjoy the movies for what they are though, even if I think they're praised more than they deserve to be in some circles (I'm mainly thinking of the boards at TheOneRing.net). [quote:f1g2j452]What I think they meant about the Scouring being anti-climactic though, is that after the final battles and the crowning, introducing the audience to a whole new plot and battle would actually be anti-climactic, and I must say that I agree with them that it wouldn't have worked well on film for those who hadn't already read the book (after all, they were making a film for everyone, not just the readers, hence the many changes that we don't like).[/quote:f1g2j452] The Scouring wasn't a whole new plot though, it was the resolution of the story that had been building from the first few chapters. It was the culmination of the 'journey' (both literal and metaphorical) of the four Hobbits and represented them coming into their own and achieving something without any outside help. It also resolved the story of Saruman, who'd been a major villain for much of the book and delivered the message that nowhere is safe from evil, not even the home that Frodo was trying to protect by going on the Quest. It's worth noting that the destruction of the Ring happens fairly early in Book VI and is not the grand, sole climax that it is in the films. The story is far from over just because the last battle of the war was won, something that Tolkien, a former soldier and a father of soldiers, knew very well. This makes PJ's statement about anti-climaxes particularly ironic since his own film drags on for 20 minutes after its climax, whereas Tolkien's is resolved very quickly after its [i:f1g2j452]true[/i:f1g2j452] climax. [quote:f1g2j452]What you say about them including the White Council is indicating that they're going to change a lot/make stuff up, I think you're quite right there. Hadn't thought about it that way. Hopefully they'll be happy with making up their own WC story, and leave Bilbo's story alone, unchanged![/quote:f1g2j452] We can hope, though Gandalf had some choice words about the foolishness of that. :mrgreen: :P
I always thought that the Scouring WAS anti-climactic as written. :roll: I agree with Ringdrotten, bunch of pessimist Purists. :lol: [b:3cgbbld0]GB[/b:3cgbbld0]
[quote="Eldorion":1dojpg5g] The Scouring wasn't a whole new plot though[/quote:1dojpg5g] you are right about that, but I think it would have appeared as a somewhat new plot to the non readers. If it was to be included, they would have to include Frodo's uneasiness in Rivendell and the Bree sequence, in order to introduce the audience to the plot. And that would've taken too much time (for theatrical release anyway, would've loved another 1-2 hours of Scouring on the Extended Editions <img src='/images/smileys/smile.gif' border='0' alt='Smile Smilie' /> )
[quote="Gandalfs Beard":22a216y9]I always thought that the Scouring WAS anti-climactic as written. :roll:[/quote:22a216y9] I don't see how the climax of the book can be considered anti-climactic. :P I don't think PJ understands what the climax of the book was (hint: it's not the same as in the film). [quote:22a216y9]I agree with Ringdrotten, bunch of pessimist Purists. :lol: [/quote:22a216y9] We know from experience that PJ doesn't care much about the same basic characters, plot, and themes (to borrow a phrase from you in another thread :mrgreen: ). <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' />
[quote="Ringdrotten":2z1nnh7a][quote="Eldorion":2z1nnh7a] The Scouring wasn't a whole new plot though[/quote:2z1nnh7a] you are right about that, but I think it would have appeared as a somewhat new plot to the non readers. If it was to be included, they would have to include Frodo's uneasiness in Rivendell and the Bree sequence, in order to introduce the audience to the plot. And that would've taken too much time (for theatrical release anyway, would've loved another 1-2 hours of Scouring on the Extended Editions <img src='/images/smileys/smile.gif' border='0' alt='Smile Smilie' /> )[/quote:2z1nnh7a] They couldn't have just tacked it onto the films as PJ made them, that's for sure. For one, PJ constructed the films so that the destruction of the Ring was [b:2z1nnh7a]THE[/b:2z1nnh7a] climax of the story, so including the Scouring (or even the 20-minute coda that eventually made its way into ROTK) would have been anti-climactic. The structure of the trilogy, or at least of the third film, would have had to be altered. They would have had to work some foreshadowing in as well. That in mind, they could have included the Scouring if they had set out to be faithful from the beginning instead of deciding to drop it beginning with the first draft of the script.
Also, audiences already thought that there were way to many endings to begin with. I remember watching some interview w/ EW where he talked about chatting with Jack Nickolson (not the golfer) and Jack asked him if he died. EW said no, didn't you see the end of the movie? And Jack said, No, it was getting too draggy, I went to go warm up the car for the kids. :lol: Or something along those lines... That's why I suggested a fan made short film.
[quote="Tinuviel":2su66gd6]Also, audiences already thought that there were way to many endings to begin with.[/quote:2su66gd6] That's the problem with including 20 minutes of film after the climax of the story, but that one's on PJ. He actually made the dragging [i:2su66gd6]worse[/i:2su66gd6].
Eldo, the Destruction of the Ring is the very clear Climax of the Book. :roll: Everything that comes after is Denoument. [b:2qj27e5m]GB[/b:2qj27e5m]
[b:rt83km3u][i:rt83km3u]A[/i:rt83km3u][/b:rt83km3u] climax, perhaps, but the story goes on for long enough afterwards that it clearly doesn't fit the typical model for books. There is not a single, overwhelming climax to the book the way there is to the films.
I would have to disagree Eldo. The Destruction of the Ring (and Sauron with it) [i:3mwp2wkk][b:3mwp2wkk]IS[/b:3mwp2wkk][/i:3mwp2wkk] the Climax of the story of the Ring: [b:3mwp2wkk]Lord of the Rings[/b:3mwp2wkk]. Everything that follows is a very lengthy Denouement that ties up a bunch of loose ends This includes the Scouring of the Shire, which, due to the rise of Action, is necessarily anti-climactic. Now there's nothing WRONG with that per se. Rules of storytelling aren't set in stone, and Tolkien was well within his rights to abandon them as he saw fit. The scene works well enough in the book, that one can overlook the pacing problems it presents. But it would have totally ruined the pacing of the film. [b:3mwp2wkk]GB[/b:3mwp2wkk]
I tend to think of anti-climaxes as bad, hence my disagreement with that terminology, but this seems to be devolving into semantics. In any event, I think we are in agreement that the Scouring works despite Tolkien's defiance of normal storytelling conventions. I actually quite like that he doesn't ignore the lingering effects of war after the Big Bad is defeated. Insofar as the pacing of the films is concerned, I think that the Scouring would have failed miserably if it was tacked on to the end of PJ's films, but I think it could have been included and worked had the project been approached from a different angle from the beginning.
Or if it were another film itself entirely...
[quote="Eldorion":18j9n9dh]I actually quite like that he doesn't ignore the lingering effects of war after the Big Bad is defeated. [/quote:18j9n9dh] I agree. Love the Scouring chapter. I guess it is something we (or at least I) wouldn't have missed if it wasn't there in the first place, but after reading it, it's very hard to imagine the book without it. It really shows how the war has had an impact on everywhere in Middle Earth, even a place as peaceful as the Shire.
I think people who don't think the Scouring of the Shire as one of the best chapters in the LotR should be scoured themselves and banned from any further participation in this Forum! :x
You know I think the scourging is great, but I can see why it wasn't put in the movie. Even reading it, I get a sad sensation, because they think it's finally over, but then all of the war and destruction followed the Hobbits home. I feel like its a unneccessary climax for the movie, because it's already too long and at that point in the film you start to loose the attention of the viewer. But in the book, it's its own climax in the falling action! And hey, if you're not satisfied with the movie's ending, just READ THE BOOK!
[quote="Tinuviel":3kpxtlpq]You know I think the scourging is great, but I can see why it wasn't put in the movie. Even reading it, I get a sad sensation, because they think it's finally over, but then all of the war and destruction followed the Hobbits home. I feel like its a unneccessary climax for the movie, because it's already too long and at that point in the film you start to loose the attention of the viewer. But in the book, it's its own climax in the falling action! And hey, if you're not satisfied with the movie's ending, just READ THE BOOK![/quote:3kpxtlpq] Exactly. :mrgreen:
If I'm watching a film of a book I don't expect when the credits roll to have to go and read the book to find out out how it ended!!
I've gotten into the habbit of doing that actually.... :oops: :oops:
[quote="pettytyrant101":1gowxhc4]If I'm watching a film of a book I don't expect when the credits roll to have to go and read the book to find out out how it ended!![/quote:1gowxhc4] Well, very many books which have become films have different endings. It's not unusual, and sometimes it is not a bad thing in my opinion. I don't like the fact that they didn't include the Scouring, but I guess I can understand why they did it.
"I guess I can understand why they did it" Is it because PJ wouldn't know an adaptation if it won a World's Best Adaptation pageant and came up to him wearing a World's Best Adaptation winners sash holding a World's Best Adaptation winners gold cup engraved with the words 'World's Best Adaptation Winner' and tapped him on the shoulder and said "Hi, I'm an adaptation!"? :twisted:
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