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Thread: 2 kings of the Hobbit and LOTR

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The film makers changed a few things in both trilogy movies. This topic is about the 2 kings from the two movie trilogy. In LOTR, Aragorn wasn't confident in himself to claim the throne of Gondor as the rightful king or didn't want the "power" until the end. In the Hobbit, Thorin started the quest not to claim the treasure in Erebor, but to reclaim his home. These two small changes in the characters made a huge difference when comparing the books to the movies. Does anybody like or dislike these changes?

Interesting question. But to be honest I didn't get the impression that Aragorn didn't want or was too afraid to take the throne in the LOTR movies. Like the books I think he knew it wasn't safe to openly proclaim who he was and what he intended to do, nor did he know where to start. Nobody had to convince him to be King, he never complained about it, he just couldn't do it alone. Thorin at least had his handful of brethren to accompany him, his brothers in arms who had suffered through the same hardships as he. Aragorn was alone, his true identity only known to the elves, who of course weren't going to send an army with him to Gondor.

And I thought in the Hobbit movie they pointed out he was initially going for the treasure, but as time went on it became more about the throne, which is the impression I took away from the book. Particularly after the initial visit to Lake Town, where everybody got all excited a descendant of Thrain had returned, just like in the songs. They definitely make clear his lust for the Arkenstone.

Admittedly with Aragorn it could've just been I knew what he was thinking and that's why I didn't get that impression. It is true he didn't speak up much about it, which could give the impression he was timid and afraid of his heritage Thorin does come off as being all majestic and kingly in AUJ, which I think is the setup for when he does decided the throne is more important. But at least it started off with him primarily going on a "treasure hunt."

Agreed on Aragorn (Film) Glorfindel. He states that he "never wanted it!" During a discussion with Elrond in TTT. Which I found regretable and unessesary.

However I didn't pick up that Thorin was interested in anything but reclaiming his Families realm in AUJ. Sure there was mention of others getting their hands on the wealth, which is understandable, but I didn't pick up on greed for the gold.

Hm, which scene was it Brego? I don't recall Aragorn even speaking with Elrond in TTT? They met again in ROTK, but I don't think he said anything there either. Maybe I'm losing my mind though...

I think it's in the extended edition. If I remember correctly, it's right before the fellowship leaves Rivendell. Aragorn was at his mom's grave and Elrond was talking to him. Brego, I think that's the scene you're talking about. The one in TTT is Elrond telling Aragorn to let Arewen go. He also spoke Arwen about the weakness that runs in his bloodline.

I do remember them talking in both instances but I don't remember Aragorn ever openly declaring he doesn't want the throne.

And if he DID, and it is in the extended scenes, well....that's probably why it's in the extended. Because it's not true and PJ decided to take it out. Every movie has deleted scenes. That's all the extended editions really are, incorporated deleted scenes that they could re-sell for twice as much. And I love them, inaccurate as they are.

Let me clarify, it was late when I wrote that and I was not in my.....um, normal state of mind. I do think Aragorn gives an impression of hesitancy in the films, but I never felt it was because he straight up didn't want it. But he was afraid to take it. And if he did, he got over it after one scene. Not to mention when Boromor calls Aragorn his king and he gives the slight smile.

With Thorin, I watched it again last night, and it does start off giving the impression Thorin is after the treasure, but much sooner than needed they shift it towards the throne during the scene where they're sitting around a fire and Dwalin gives his recount of what happened. This doesn't bother me too much, because it still creates a memorable story line, but it is a step away from the books. Not quite as unnecessary as elves at helms deep though.

I believe it was Balin telling the story. It also doesn't bother me. It might even be good for the movie, seeing all the gold might make Thorin greedy nd not wanting to give it to the men and elves after Smaug's death.

It definitely was Balin. Guess I just really like the name Dwalin and typed that up without really revising...

Correct, yes it was in an extended scence and I think of TFOTR....

Back to Aragorn, I would like to say that although I really loved Viggo M's rendition of the King, it always annoyed me to hear about his "choosing exile" and "turning from the path".  Why say this, when it is fundamental in Tolkien that Aragorn was the Renewer, and everything he did was to that end?  His wide travels, his service in disguise both in Rohan and in Gondor, his close alliance with Gandalf...  The regard in which he was held by the Elves, in Rivendell, in Lothlorien, and even in Mirkwood, was surely won by his impeccable actions and attitudes over the years.  And Elrond was not hostile towards him, even though he had won the heart of Arwen and would be responsible for her remaining in Middle Earth; stern,  perhaps, but after all he was practically his father: Estel's foster-father.

Perhaps Sir Peter felt a need for inner struggles because such a faultless hero may seem passé, but it should never be forgotten that Aragorn was  the thirty-ninth generation after Isildur, and heir to so much pain and sorrow and defeat that it could hardly be in him to be arrogant or shallow.  Maybe the true measure of his heroism was that he kept the faith always, balanced between humility and great daring, and ever conscious of his high calling and destiny: either our hope cometh, or all hope's end.  

" Maybe the true measure of his heroism was that he kept the faith always, balanced between humility and great daring, and ever conscious of his high calling and destiny: either our hope cometh, or all hope's end."

Perfectly put, Marghana. This is exactly how I felt. He was reserved, but not because he didn't want it, because he was unsure of how to go about pursuing it. He maintained his effort, but didn't pursue it to the highest degree. I just don't think it was as easy as saying "I'm the king" and waltzing up to the front gates of Gondor. It should've been, but it wasn't...

Very true words Daer Marghana and Balrogs. Aragorn's natural ability to offer council and of course his powers of healing, hinted at in the films, but a major part of the books, makes his a true King and undoubtably the reforming King of Gondor, Arnor and of other free people's of Middle Earth. In the books he himself had no doubt but Vigo gave us a more unsure idea. I loved Vigo as Aragorn and understand why PJ added doubt to the character to make him seem to grow as a character. Well have to wait and see how Thorin pans out, but I think he is far more damaged by his history than Aragorn and perhaps in the end it will be this damage which overcomes him.
Very true words Daer Marghana and Balrogs. Aragorn's natural ability to offer council and of course his powers of healing, hinted at in the films, but a major part of the books, makes his a true King and undoubtably the reforming King of Gondor, Arnor and of other free people's of Middle Earth. In the books he himself had no doubt but Vigo gave us a more unsure idea. I loved Vigo as Aragorn and understand why PJ added doubt to the character to make him seem to grow as a character. Well have to wait and see how Thorin pans out, but I think he is far more damaged by his history than Aragorn and perhaps in the end it will be this damage which overcomes him.

Back to Aragorn, I would like to say that although I really loved Viggo M's rendition of the King, it always annoyed me to hear about his "choosing exile" and "turning from the path".  Why say this, when it is fundamental in Tolkien that Aragorn was the Renewer, and everything he did was to that end?


And we know that Aragorn was the ultimate hope for men and for Middle Earth. He was named Estel after all. I think Aragorn from the books was fully aware of his role in the Middle Earth's future.

I guess PJ believed it is necessary to give Aragorn a distinctive character arc, so the viewers will observe his transformation from the lonely and crownless exile to the glorious and self confident king. It was his personal journey.