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Thread: 'The Shadow world'... Where?

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What do we actually know about the world which the Ringwraiths see, what can they see that other living beings cannot? what else lives there? is it part of middle earth if not who created it? etc

Any info on this is welcome preferrably backed up with quotes but i would also like some 'far out' ideas about this topic if anyone has any.

Its just one part of the book i don't understand and were expected to just accept it without a real explaination are we not?
I seem to remember something in Tolkien's letters about the wraith-world but I can't find it. I think this could be an interesting thread so I will come back to it when I feel less tired and have more time.
Sheesh! I don't have Morgoth's Ring at the moment, but it is said more there on the matter. The "wraith" world (or, rather, the spirit world) may be spooky to us, Men, but to Elves is just another existential dimension. Apparently, the Eldar could choose to follow the summons of the Valar, either in their life or after their death. If they were still reluctant to go to Mandos, they were not forced to do it; however, they then became exposed to the dark side of this spirit world, receiving Morgoth's dark summons. Few of those who refused the Valar could refuse Morgoth also!

As for those who had the strenght of will to elude his grasp, they were harassed and lured by Sauron, thereafter. He has always been a Necromancer, particularily interested in seducing, deceiving and ensnaring people with his phantasms and dellusions.

As for Men... They only passed through the Halls of Mandos for a short time, going henceforth no one knows where (except Iluvatar). The ones Sauron deceived, however, (like the Nazgul) stayed trapped into a strange world, somewhere between life and death. The One Ring confered an unusual ability to its bearer: the ability to pass into this other world (invisible to human eyes, though not to Elves: they were present in both worlds at the same time). That's why Frodo saw Glorfindel shining with a bright light even when he was wearing the Ring.
So could this be the only power of the One Ring - Taking people into the 'Shadow world' where they can utilise strange powers. This could explain the elder elves strange powers - the ability to utilise the 'shadow world'.
Strange, i'd never thought about this before your thread.
Elf With a Big Grin Smilie
Tasari
I'm SOO not getting this. What's all this about refusing the Valar and then refusing Morgoth? Don't elves reincarnate?
Just a thought. I just remembered Gandalf telling Frodo that he saw Glorfindel all in white because that was what he looked like 'on the other side' and Frodo was almost in the wraith-world, one of the ringwraiths. So THAT'S why we can't see the ringwraiths. I wonder how an elf's life would be, being in touch with bothw orlds at once? Or am I way off track? This is a weird fantasy-type topic, and I'm not good with fantasy.
Really, neither have I thought of the Shadow-land before this. It's a cool question, though. But does being in the Shadow-world mean you can't see the real world (or rather, the world the Living live in)? I think they can, or else, Bilbo and Gollum and Isildur wouldn't have been able to get away invisible wearing the Ring. But then, it's also pretty strange that if indeed the Shdow world is a place for the "in between Living and Dead" then they shouldn't be able to see Living, or at least if they could see Living, then they should also be able to see Dead.
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But then, it's also pretty strange that if indeed the Shdow world is a place for the "in between Living and Dead" then they shouldn't be able to see Living, or at least if they could see Living, then they should also be able to see Dead.

The shadow world is the same place as Middle-earth, but in a different plane of existence. There are no "dead" in the shadow world; all spirits go to the Halls of Mandos or the Void after death, with the only exception of the Nazgl, because they were bounded to their Rings.
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But does being in the Shadow-world mean you can't see the real world (or rather, the world the Living live in)?

In LOTR, Strider does tell the hobbits at Weathertop about the Nazgul that :

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"They themselves do not see the world of light as we do, but our shapes cast shadows in their minds which only the noon sn destroys; and in the dark they perceive many signs and forms that are hidden from us: then they are most to be feared. And at all times they smeel the blood of living things, desiring and hating it. Senses too, there are other than sight and smell. We can feel their presence - it troubled our hearts, as soon as we came here, and before we saw them; they feel ours more" keenly.
When Frodo sees Glorfindel, Gandalf says of it
"For you saw him for a moment as he is on the other side (I assume he means of the sea): one of the mighty of the first born". It is not clear whether this is just in the shadow world or the real world aswell. Or perhaps this is how elves see the mighty of their race. I have not read many of the books lately apart from flicking through Narn I Hin Hurin in UT, so sorry i am not much help
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"And here in Rivendell there live still some of his chief foes: the Elven-wise, lords of the Eldar from beyond the furthest seas. They do not fear the Ringwraiths, for those who have dwelt in the Blessed Realm live at once in both worlds, and against both the Seen and the Unseen they have great power."


So Glorfindel and those Elves who had travelled from Aman didn't just see one world at a time.
Legolas also saw the Dead on the Paths of the Dead, and did not fear them.

Seems a run-off-the-mill Elven property to me.
for those selfish lustful humans that became ensnared by Sauron and reduced to wringwraiths I have always thought they lived in a dreadful sort of twilight, like one is in in surgery where you are not in a deep sleep but neither are you awake. Neither can you do anything to help yourself or come out of it. It is horrific.
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Leelee
...like one is in in surgery where you are not in a deep sleep but neither are you awake. Neither can you do anything to help yourself or come out of it. It is horrific.

I actually rather enjoyed the feeling from the medication they gave me... haha