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Thread: Galadriel Eregion timeline

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I've been trying to figure out Galadriel's timeline during the Second Age during the War of the Last Alliance-- not easy considering all of Tolkein's information is spotty and conflicting. I was wondering, was Galadriel present in Ost-in-Edhil when Sauron began to siege Eregion in an attempt to reach The Nine in the House of the Mirdain, or had she already gone through Khazad-Dum to Lothlorien to stay under the protection of King Amdir? All of the websites I've gone to have conflicting information as to whether Celebrimbor was leading Ost-in-Edhil at this point, or if he was just leading the blacksmiths. I know Celeborn was there with Elrond trying to drive back Sauron's forces... does anyone have any idea where Galadriel and Celebrian were at this point?
It is in the Unfinished Tales that Celebrimbor, the chief of the Mirdain the jewel smiths had designed Galadriel a green stone in the likeness of an eagle with its wings outspread (If you recollect it is the same stone that gave Aragorn the name of Elessar).
It says there that it was wrought for her before the Three Rings were forged and when she was in Lorien. This elfstone was responsible for staying the flow of Time in the land of Lorien before the Ring Nenya came to be hers.
It would have saved you much trouble had you just read The Unfinished Tales.

I think what I have said above is right to the best of my knowledge. Maybe Grondy can just verify it whether it is correct or any of the Wise.
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I've been trying to figure out Galadriel's timeline during the Second Age during the War of the Last Alliance-- not easy considering all of Tolkein's information is spotty and conflicting. I was wondering, was Galadriel present in Ost-in-Edhil when Sauron began to siege Eregion in an attempt to reach The Nine in the House of the Mirdain, or had she already gone through Khazad-Dum to Lothlorien to stay under the protection of King Amdir?

There are two or three versions of Galadriel during the Second Age. They're mentioned in Unfinished Tales.

IIRC in one of them, Amroth was Galadriel's son.
Some websites possibly relate the tale as it was imagined in the late 1950s, from a text titled Concerning Galadriel and Celeborn.

In this text Galadriel and Celeborn founded Eregion, and ruled; but later Sauron swayed the Mírdain to revolt and sieze power from them. Thus Galadriel goes to Lórien, though Celeborn will not (but he is disregarded by Celebrimbor, the apparent new lord of Eregion). Later, when Sauron learned of the repentance of Celebrimbor, he (Sauron) returns with war, and Eregion falls.

In this conception Amdír is not noted as ruling in Lórien when Galadriel arrives (here it is said that Lórien had no princes or rulers at the time of this contact with the migrating Sindar and Noldor). As Virumor noted, Amroth is here Galadriel's son, and as first written (at least), Celebrimbor is a craftsman of Gondolin.

The Elessar text is a wholly different account (though seemingly written about the same time), and raises problematic questions concerning chronology. Skipping this for now anyway, in my opinion Tolkien abandoned certain ideas found in Concerning Galadriel And Celeborn.

Later in the 1960s JRRT would publish (not just write) simply that Celebrimbor was lord of Eregion, and notably, a Feanorian, with no indication that he had wrested power from Galadriel. Later notes reject Amroth as Galadriel's son (he becomes the son of Amdír) and put Celeborn in Lórien after the fall of Eregion (in CG&C he never went there in the Second Age). Also in later notes there are two conflicting notions concerning Galadriel -- after the fall of Eregion either she went with Celeborn to Lórien -- or was in Lindon at some point, where Celeborn joined her later (after he left Lórien).

Compare that to the earlier text CG&C, with Galadriel having departed to Lórien before Eregion was attacked by Sauron, not leaving that realm until after his defeat.

Christopher Tolkien raises a problematic question in the middle of Concerning Galadriel And Celeborn: why did Galadriel scorn Annatar? and if she did so because she saw through his disguise, as a leader of the Noldor in Eregion, why would she allow him to stay?

In any case, in my opinion the new scenario in the 1960s might rather have been: Sauron seduces Celebrimbor, the lord of Eregion and descendant of Feanor; and Galadriel and Celeborn are no longer the original founders or rulers of Eregion, and thus Galadriel doesn't go to Lórien before Eregion is attacked, as she is not ousted from rule by Celebrimbor and the Jewel-smiths.


And welcome to Planet Tolkien Smile Smilie
Galin has done an admiral job explaining the conflict among the texts. Usually the later texts are the more accurate, but not always for sometimes the professor forgot what he had written before. Anyway, when I encounter a conflict, I just choose the one that seems more sensible.

Sometimes there is information about the conflicts in The Letters of JRR Tolkien, but I don't know if the ones concerning Galadriel's history are mentioned there or not.
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Christopher Tolkien raises a problematic question in the middle of Concerning Galadriel And Celeborn: why did Galadriel scorn Annatar? and if she did so because she saw through his disguise, as a leader of the Noldor in Eregion, why would she allow him to stay?

One can always surmize.

Pure politics: Galadriel didn't intervene in Eregion because she wanted it destroyed and Lothlorien to become the most powerful Elven realm in Middle-earth.

Not to mention Celebrimbor was still a descendant of Fëanor. Maybe she wanted that line completely eradicated, considering the many horrors they were responsible for - both directly & indirectly. Also, isn't it written somewhere that Celebrimbor was secretly in love with her? That could have added another dimension to the drama.
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One can always surmize. Pure politics: Galadriel didn't intervene in Eregion because she wanted it destroyed and Lothlorien to become the most powerful Elven realm in Middle-earth.


But at the time she is said to have scorned Sauron (in this conception) Galadriel's realm was Eregion, not Lórien. And in any case, I can't believe Tolkien would give such a motive to Galadriel (!) -- desiring the destruction of an Elven realm, which, one would suppose, would involve the death of many Elves.

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Not to mention Celebrimbor was still a descendant of Fëanor. Maybe she wanted that line completely eradicated, considering the many horrors they were responsible for - both directly & indirectly. Also, isn't it written somewhere that Celebrimbor was secretly in love with her? That could have added another dimension to the drama.


In the text The Elessar Celebrimbor says to Galadriel: 'But you know that I love you...' and here Celebrimbor is again a jewel-smith of Gondolin. I tend to doubt he was a descendant of Feanor at this point; and as I say, he was a craftsman in Gondolin as well when Concerning Galadriel and Celeborn was first written, at least.
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It says there that it was wrought for her before the Three Rings were forged and when she was in Lorien.


Incidentally, although I think the idea was superseded by later text in any case, I agree that in The Elessar text (version B), Galadriel appears to have come to Eregion from somewhere else.

In version A she was said to be dwelling 'under the trees of Greenwood the Great' (in the Third Age here, as she is talking to Gandalf).

In version B, with the setting now in the Second Age, Celebrimbor says 'though you turned to Celeborn of the Trees' -- noting also that the published conception (first edition only) at the time was: 'The chief of these were Thranduil in the north of Greenwood the Great, and Celeborn in the south of the forest.' The text Concerning Galadriel and Celeborn also relates that the realm of Lórien extended into the forest on both sides of the Great River, including the region which was afterwards Dol Guldur.

So perhaps in 'B' she came to Eregion from this realm.

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This elfstone was responsible for staying the flow of Time in the land of Lorien before the Ring Nenya came to be hers.


If this is what Tolkien meant, then I disagree with his idea.

Yes, I disagree with JRRT here Smile Smilie

In my opinion the healing of the Elessar should be 'preservation' in a sense, but not the preservation of Nenya; and I also think that using the Elessar should involve individual ministering -- meaning it can heal a trampled flower if ministered to (for example), but not preserve all flowers at once in a given, relatively large, area.

In The Elessar Tolkien does note that the Three were greater than the jewel, but I think he has yet implied too great a power for the jewel. It's strange, for when JRRT first describes the nature of the stone, he notes that those who looked through it saw things healed again, or as they were in the grace of their youth, and that the hands of one who held it brought to all that they touched healing from hurt.

According to this alone the powers seem limited enough: one could heal a trampled flower by ministering to it specifically, and it is thus 'preserved' in this sense, but that need not mean, once healed, it will not age and wither due to its natural span.

Not that JRRT would take my advice of course!
By the way, according to the two competing later notes concerning Galadriel's whereabouts (I'll call them notes 'A and B'), I think it's possible that -- according to one -- she was not actually in Eregion when the battle reached that realm.

With 'B', where Galadriel and Celeborn go to Lorien after the destruction of Eregion, I get the impression that maybe she is present in Eregion, but retreating with the advance of Sauron's host. In the note 'A', where Celeborn goes to Lorien and later joins Galadriel in Lindon however, it might be that she had left at some earlier point, in part in order to get the Three out of Eregion.

In the older CG&C text, Galadriel had counselled that the Three should be hidden, never used, 'and dispersed, far from Eregion', and so if this idea were to hold (again, she wasn't in Eregion at the time she received Nenya according to this older version, but in Lorien), maybe she left Eregion for Lindon with her ring, along with the other two rings, before the invasion of Eriador made this journey more difficult.

Of course it would be nice to know what note is later -- with respect to 'A & B', but maybe that is not possible to know.

In version A she was said to be dwelling 'under the trees of Greenwood the Great' (in the Third Age here, as she is talking to Gandalf).

Older thread but I'm just noting that I've come to change my mind about this. In The Elessar [A] version where Gandalf visits Galadriel I have earlier concluded that it must be the Third Age, and thus thought it odd that Galadriel should care much for the preservation power of the Elessar jewel in an Age when she can already employ Nenya.

At first I thought this was a mistake by JRRT, then possibly an intended mistake to give weight to the second version of the Elessar history, as both versions are intended to be story internal [in other words, this is not, as in other cases, Tolkien simply changing his mind, but an intended variation within the collected tales that Tolkien has, in theory, translated for the modern reader]...

... but now I think that perhaps Tolkien intended this to be a visit from Olorin, not Gandalf the Istar. In other words, not necessarily in the Third Age, when of course Galadriel can and does employ Nenya for preservation power, notably in Lothlorien.

I never gave much attention before to how much Tolkien employs the name Olorin in this section of the tale, rather than Gandalf, and that his parenthetical reference 'who was known in Middle-earth as Mithrandir' could easily refer to days that followed this visit in history, to days after the Istari came to Middle-earth.