Thread: Sauron's other name
He was also known as Gorthaur, but if you're looking for an original name, I don't know.
Hm. Interesting. Thanks!
According to UT, Sauron also had three Second Age self-given names:
Annatar = 'Lord of Gifts'
Artano = 'High-smith'
Aulendil - 'Servant of Aule'
Annatar = 'Lord of Gifts'
Artano = 'High-smith'
Aulendil - 'Servant of Aule'
Tolkien wrote that Sauron was his :true name:, the Quenya version was Sauro and the Sindarin Gorthaur. He was also called Mor-thû or Súro. They all mean the same thing basically. Sauro/Súro and Gorthaur are the Abhorred. And Mor-thû is Black Stench. So I doubt those were his first, TRUE name since he originally served Aulë before he went to Melkor (Morgoth). It would thus make sense that his true name wouldn't be something evil or rotten.
Example: Morgoth was originally a Vala, and his true name was Alkar, the Glorious. Then he was called Melkor, He Who Arises in Might, and finally Morgoth, Black Enemy of the World, by Fëanor. Although he was also called Bauglir, the constrainer. End example.
So, i think, we don't actually know his first, REAL name. It's not published anywhere that I know. If it was even ever written down. Or thought of.
Example: Morgoth was originally a Vala, and his true name was Alkar, the Glorious. Then he was called Melkor, He Who Arises in Might, and finally Morgoth, Black Enemy of the World, by Fëanor. Although he was also called Bauglir, the constrainer. End example.
So, i think, we don't actually know his first, REAL name. It's not published anywhere that I know. If it was even ever written down. Or thought of.
Wow. I'm reading UT right now, Grondy. just started. Kinda stole the book from my bro but he's in maine he'll never know. lol. 
I liked UT because it filled in a few of the holes that were necessarily left in The Silmarillion.
Quote:
According to UT, Sauron also had three Second Age self-given names:
Annatar = 'Lord of Gifts'
Artano = 'High-smith'
Aulendil - 'Servant of Aule'
According to UT, Sauron also had three Second Age self-given names:
Annatar = 'Lord of Gifts'
Artano = 'High-smith'
Aulendil - 'Servant of Aule'
Sorry to butt in here Grond but I believed that Aulendil was 'Lover-of-Aulë' in the sense that a person loves another platonically......since I read it somewhere....although I think that I may have misinterperted the name.....so you might be right...who knows..
And Arcormacolindóva, I had no idea about Melkor being Alkar at the beginning..... BTW how did the Valar get their names? Did Eru name them as a father would his children? or did they come up with their own names? The Eldar certainly did come up with alot of their names.....but their 'original' names....who gave them those?
Oh and where did you find that? Alkar?
Quote:
Sorry to butt in here Grond but I believed that Aulendil was 'Lover-of-Aulë' in the sense that a person loves another platonically......since I read it somewhere....although I think that I may have misinterperted the name.....so you might be right...who knows..
Maybe it is just a difference in translation to or from English, Aulë. I found the three names that Sauron called himself in the index to the Unfinished Tales.Sorry to butt in here Grond but I believed that Aulendil was 'Lover-of-Aulë' in the sense that a person loves another platonically......since I read it somewhere....although I think that I may have misinterperted the name.....so you might be right...who knows..
I think I found it in HoME Volume X Morgoths Ring but I may be mistaken....
I thought that the suffix - dil (ndil) referred to love (or respect for, etc.), while the suffix -dur (ndur) referred to being the servant of the previous part of the word. I.e. Elendil, Isildur = Star-lover, Moon-servant. However, the Index in UT gives the name's meaning as Servant of Aulë, as does the context. Very interesting...
Maybe Sauron really used Aulendil (Lover of Aule) to confuse the Elves even more; love has nothing to do with evil, so they could not suspect his true nature! Just a thought...
There's a 'new' note published in Parma Eldalamberon:
The derivation of Sauron seems to be fluid in this note, but this part with Mairon and etc. is possibly still upheld.
Quote:
'(...) Sauron's original name was Mairon, but this was altered after he was suborned by Melkor. But he continued to call himself Mairon the Admirable, or Tar-mairon 'King Excellent' until after the downfall of Númenor.' JRRT
'(...) Sauron's original name was Mairon, but this was altered after he was suborned by Melkor. But he continued to call himself Mairon the Admirable, or Tar-mairon 'King Excellent' until after the downfall of Númenor.' JRRT
The derivation of Sauron seems to be fluid in this note, but this part with Mairon and etc. is possibly still upheld.
To what time does that note date back?
To generally after the publication of The Lord of the Rings.
What the editors of PE have done is combine various collections of etymologies into a single list of roots. Some collections appear to be dated 1957 and 1959, while another set of documents suggests a date of 1959 or 1960 (due to evidence relating to Tolkien's essay Quendi and Eldar).
The root concerned with the name Sauron is SAWA- and this entry contains the extra bit about Mairon. But at some point Tolkien added a note: 'No. THAW-, cruel. Saura, cruel. Gorthaur.' which was added in the margin against the explanation of Sauron, written in pencil with an 'X' next to it.
From a letter dated 1967 we know that the derivation of Sauron includes the base THAW- 'detestable'.
What the editors of PE have done is combine various collections of etymologies into a single list of roots. Some collections appear to be dated 1957 and 1959, while another set of documents suggests a date of 1959 or 1960 (due to evidence relating to Tolkien's essay Quendi and Eldar).
The root concerned with the name Sauron is SAWA- and this entry contains the extra bit about Mairon. But at some point Tolkien added a note: 'No. THAW-, cruel. Saura, cruel. Gorthaur.' which was added in the margin against the explanation of Sauron, written in pencil with an 'X' next to it.
From a letter dated 1967 we know that the derivation of Sauron includes the base THAW- 'detestable'.
..... to throw in a stick from "real" history, "Saura" is greek for lizard/serpent/worm/dragon. Can't believe Tolkien would have been the type to be unaware of this.....
(You may now go back to discussing Tolkien's created etymology and totally ignore the possibility of Greek etymological genes creeping into his works.)
(You may now go back to discussing Tolkien's created etymology and totally ignore the possibility of Greek etymological genes creeping into his works.)
I would agree that Tolkien was aware of the Greek, but in a letter he seems to refer to this as a chance similarity, adding:
The famous change in Quenya (which Feanor rejected) of þ to s is involved in this derivation.
Quote:
'To take a frequent case: there is no linguistic connexion, and therefore no connexion in significance, between Sauron a contemporary form of older *Thaurond- derivative of an adjectival *thaurā- (from a base THAW-) 'detestable' and the Greek (characters I can't reproduce here) 'a lizard'. JRRT, Letters
'To take a frequent case: there is no linguistic connexion, and therefore no connexion in significance, between Sauron a contemporary form of older *Thaurond- derivative of an adjectival *thaurā- (from a base THAW-) 'detestable' and the Greek (characters I can't reproduce here) 'a lizard'. JRRT, Letters
The famous change in Quenya (which Feanor rejected) of þ to s is involved in this derivation.