Thread: Death of Theodin
Has anyone else seen the similarity in the death of Theodin and the death of Darth Vader? From the camra shots to the lines spoken. I don't remember what he said in the book but they seem to be almost identical in the films. Is it an homage to Lucas from Jackson?
I'll say this before Vir does - it certainly isn't a homage from PJ to JRRT.
Who on earth is Theodin?? But yes, Théoden also said "My son, take off my helmet so i can see you with my own eyes" against Éowyn.
It's identical!!
It would have been more alike to ROTJ if the Witch-King said to Éowyn "Daughter, take off my helmet so i can see you with my own eyes".
It's identical!!
It would have been more alike to ROTJ if the Witch-King said to Éowyn "Daughter, take off my helmet so i can see you with my own eyes".
Sorry Virumor Ididn't know that Planet-tolkien was like Final Jeapordy and that spelling counted. Thank you for the just correction I shall never do so again. 
Planet-Tolkien isn't like that at all, Gothmog, just members like Vir who like to pick up on other's mistakes regardless of their own imperfections.
Of course, you will never equal our very sweet Amarie (Council Member) for her typos. Oh, I wish I kept a list of them but she threatened to roast me if I did. And she means it.
Of course, you will never equal our very sweet Amarie (Council Member) for her typos. Oh, I wish I kept a list of them but she threatened to roast me if I did. And she means it.
Hail Lord of Balrogs! Don't mind Virumor, she's just a bit nutty. And no I don't think the death of Theoden and the Death of Darth Vader is similar.
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Don't mind Virumor, she's just a bit nutty
Don't mind Virumor, she's just a bit nutty
Eh.... I think you are mixing two persons....
Nah....The blend is perfect. Care to taste?
Gothmog, meet Virumor. Virumor is a purist. He likes correctly written names as well as correct information, quotes and facts. Which is good, since it keeps us on our toes and helps us seperate movie-lotr from tolkien-lotr and imaginary info from the real info. 
And ALL of us members should be careful about picking on other members.
I am the Queen of Typos, I carry my typos with pride and will, as Vee, says roast anyone who makes fun of me or anyone else. Or torture you with endless rants about why you should not make fun of others.
And as an attempt to bring this thread back on topic: I think the death of Theoden and the Death of Darth Vader are similar. I remember rolling my eyes when I saw it. A homage to Lucas? Could be, could be... Your guess is as good as mine.
And ALL of us members should be careful about picking on other members.
I am the Queen of Typos, I carry my typos with pride and will, as Vee, says roast anyone who makes fun of me or anyone else. Or torture you with endless rants about why you should not make fun of others.
And as an attempt to bring this thread back on topic: I think the death of Theoden and the Death of Darth Vader are similar. I remember rolling my eyes when I saw it. A homage to Lucas? Could be, could be... Your guess is as good as mine.
Well, had PJ better built up the relationship between Merry and Théoden rather than between Merry and Dernhelm; Éowyn wouldn't have had to borrow Luke's lines and Merry would have been able to star in the book's tear jerking scene of Théoden's death where Éowyn was knocked out and Éomer had yet to return.
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And there stood Meriadoc the hobbit in the midst of the slain, blinking like an owl in daylight, for tears blinded him; and through a mist he looked on Éowyn's fair head, as she lay and did not move; and he looked on the face of the king, fallen in the midst of his glory. For Snowmane in his agony had rolled away from him again; yet he was the bane of his master.
Then Merry stooped and lifted his hand and kissed it, and lo! Théoden opened his eyes, and they were clear, and he spoke in a quiet voice though laboured.
'Farewell, Master Holbytla!' he said. 'My body is broken. I go to my fathers. And even in their mighty company I shall not now go ashamed. I felled the black serpent. A grim morn, and a glad day, and a golden sunset!'
Merry could not speak, but wept anew. 'Forgive me, lord,' he said at last, 'if I broke your command, and yet have done no more in your service than to weep at our parting.'
The old king smiled. 'Grieve not! It is forgiven. Great heart will not be denied. Live now in blessedness; and when you sit in peace with your pipe, think of me! For never now shall I sit with you in Meduseld, as I promised, or listen to your herb-lore.' He closed his eyes, and Merry bowed beside him.
- from The Battle of the Pelennor Fields, RotK, Book 5, Chapter Six.
And there stood Meriadoc the hobbit in the midst of the slain, blinking like an owl in daylight, for tears blinded him; and through a mist he looked on Éowyn's fair head, as she lay and did not move; and he looked on the face of the king, fallen in the midst of his glory. For Snowmane in his agony had rolled away from him again; yet he was the bane of his master.
Then Merry stooped and lifted his hand and kissed it, and lo! Théoden opened his eyes, and they were clear, and he spoke in a quiet voice though laboured.
'Farewell, Master Holbytla!' he said. 'My body is broken. I go to my fathers. And even in their mighty company I shall not now go ashamed. I felled the black serpent. A grim morn, and a glad day, and a golden sunset!'
Merry could not speak, but wept anew. 'Forgive me, lord,' he said at last, 'if I broke your command, and yet have done no more in your service than to weep at our parting.'
The old king smiled. 'Grieve not! It is forgiven. Great heart will not be denied. Live now in blessedness; and when you sit in peace with your pipe, think of me! For never now shall I sit with you in Meduseld, as I promised, or listen to your herb-lore.' He closed his eyes, and Merry bowed beside him.
- from The Battle of the Pelennor Fields, RotK, Book 5, Chapter Six.
Well there wasn't really a Dernhelm in the movies was there? Merry knew he was riding with Éowyn.
Gotta hand it to PJ, it was nice to include some girl power after he didn't include Arwen at Helm's Deep. Always take a woman to do a man's job!
Gotta hand it to PJ, it was nice to include some girl power after he didn't include Arwen at Helm's Deep. Always take a woman to do a man's job!
But did not Jackson have Arwen in the film far more then she was in the Books. I don't remember her being anymore then a peripheral character in the books. Then the movies come out and she is everywhere and greatly influential in middle-earth events.
She wasn't everywhere for sure. In FOTR for like 15 minutes? In TTT for 10 minutes at least. Dito for ROTK. PJ just wanted an Arwen on the lines instead of between the lines. In one word : warrior princess.
Normally Arwen would've been included at the battle of Helm's Deep as well. Hunting some orc and such. Pity that PJ cut that out because some Tolkien purists were threatening to keelhaul him.
Warrior princesses everywhere! Anyone noticed Guinevere in King Arthur?
Normally Arwen would've been included at the battle of Helm's Deep as well. Hunting some orc and such. Pity that PJ cut that out because some Tolkien purists were threatening to keelhaul him.
Warrior princesses everywhere! Anyone noticed Guinevere in King Arthur?
Well, that's just how movies are made these days. Ya can't have a fantasy movie without the warrior women. Not that it is bad, just gets a little old, the same old storyline used each time.
Skip it to the end!!! No wait wrong movie
The Princess Bride.... the movie to watch.
Either way, is it true that Liv Tyler sang during the HoH scene? I thought that would be Sissel.
Eowyn slayed the fell beast veraciously then in the TE. She really had to work hard for it. And Theoden's death still made me cry. But I wept, just as in the books, when Eomer found Eowyn.
The Princess Bride.... the movie to watch.
Either way, is it true that Liv Tyler sang during the HoH scene? I thought that would be Sissel.
Eowyn slayed the fell beast veraciously then in the TE. She really had to work hard for it. And Theoden's death still made me cry. But I wept, just as in the books, when Eomer found Eowyn.
if Arwen was at Helms, wouldnt it have changed things abit, considering the entire elvish contingent died....i dont think the caves were included, i suppse they coulda got around this though. As well as this the warrior princess thing is ever so hugely cheesy, im all for girl power but it was a male dominated world and too many "warrior princess's" runnin around would be a bit wierd. didnt anyone else cringe at Eowyn's quppy one liner when she slew the witch king?
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... didnt anyone else cringe at Eowyn's quppy one liner when she slew the witch king?
That didn't sound very dissimilar to Tolkien's:... didnt anyone else cringe at Eowyn's quppy one liner when she slew the witch king?
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'But no living man am I! You look upon a woman.
And then in the book she went on to state her pedigree and to warn him off. Even Witch-King Nazguls should beware the wrath of a vengefull woman, but he wouldn't listen. Oh no! He had to stick his mace in it in order to save face, and instead of backing down and saving it, he lost the whole darned shooting match for Sauron, his Lord and Master. 'But no living man am I! You look upon a woman.
I guess Miranda Otto fought for a bigger part for herself in the movie than what the book allows. You know girls!!
Going back to the Elves at Helms Deep. Wouldn't you think the way that PJ has demonstrated the fighting prowess of Legolas that the small contigent of elves would have mopped up the Uruks. Or ara the Mirkwood Elves superior to the others, I don't remember them being so tough. 
Good point about the elves at Helm's Deep, Gothmog. I thought the same thing. Guess PJ is leaving that to the imagination and perhaps they did in fact, kill quite a number of orcs as they were way outnumbered.
I didn't see any similarity to Darth Vadar's death but then I look at Star Wars quite differently. More as a Sci-Fi where LOTR seems much more real. Wishful thinking perhaps, to an extent!
I didn't see any similarity to Darth Vadar's death but then I look at Star Wars quite differently. More as a Sci-Fi where LOTR seems much more real. Wishful thinking perhaps, to an extent!
Actually Star Wars is considered a fantasy since it is not earth bound like Star Trek. But I was never sure how that worked with non-science fantacy. Genres are just so darn confusing. 
And here all this time I thought Star Wars was a gothic fairy tale of the first order. 
That's not the way I define SF and fantasy. To me SF has to have logic and 'scientific' explanations whereas in fantasy things just happen because they do.
didnt PJ attempt to make LotR feel more historical? i cant remember where but i think he said it was trying to be more "braveheart" than "labyrinth" in the way the film was shot
lol Grond, i know it was similair to book in the dialogue but i always imagined it to be less corny, can u honestly say u didnt cringe even the smallest but when u saw that scene?
lol Grond, i know it was similair to book in the dialogue but i always imagined it to be less corny, can u honestly say u didnt cringe even the smallest but when u saw that scene?
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Virumor
She wasn't everywhere for sure. In FOTR for like 15 minutes? In TTT for 10 minutes at least. Dito for ROTK. PJ just wanted an Arwen on the lines instead of between the lines. In one word : warrior princess.
Normally Arwen would've been included at the battle of Helm's Deep as well. Hunting some orc and such. Pity that PJ cut that out because some Tolkien purists were threatening to keelhaul him.
Virumor
She wasn't everywhere for sure. In FOTR for like 15 minutes? In TTT for 10 minutes at least. Dito for ROTK. PJ just wanted an Arwen on the lines instead of between the lines. In one word : warrior princess.
Normally Arwen would've been included at the battle of Helm's Deep as well. Hunting some orc and such. Pity that PJ cut that out because some Tolkien purists were threatening to keelhaul him.
Bottom Line: The movies contained too much Arwen and not enough legitimite content... What i mean by that is, PJ shouldn't have veered off from the original story so much... Besides i think they could have found a hotter actress to play Arwen, isn't Arwen suppose to be the most gorgeous women/elf that exists in middle-earth, during that time period... Liv Tyler ain't all that!
p.s.
PJ should have been keelhauled just for the heck of it!
If PJ would've followed the books to the letter, there would've been at most 10 minutes of Arwen in the movies. So why pick a hot actress for 10 minutes? No, just take Fran Walsh, aka Ms PJ, to play Arwen, in that case. Ha ha ha.
I think Liv Tyler is good-looking enough to play Arwen, the only problem is her annoying voice and crap acting. Noticed that "Oh no Frodo, don't give up!!!" - weeping scene in FOTR? what the heck was up with that?! I would've rushed with they dying hobbit-doll to Rivendell, as the doll was about to enter the spirit world.
Anyway, if PJ would've dealt with Arwen like in the books, i wouldn't complain bout Liv Tyler at all. Well, perhaps only for the voice. PJ should've picked a hotter actress to play Eowyn. Eowyn's supposed to be a young woman, 23 years of age. Not a rinkled woman in her 30s.
Hey, why wasn't Ioreth in the movies? Maybe Miranda Otto could've played that chick. Ha ha ha.
In fact, i'd like to change almost the entire LOTR cast coz i think they all stink big time, but maybe that's just because the movies don't follow the books that well. I think only Bilbo, Gandalf and Saruman were decent. Perhaps even Galadriel. Boromir was in fact good either, safe for that dying scene. For one moment, i thought PJ installed "arrow-time" in the movie and that Boromir would dodge the arrows, like a fantasy Neo or something.
I think we're kinda off topic.
Star Wars is not, but "Star Wargs" is ! Besides, Star Trek ain't earthbound. Only nerdbound.
I think Liv Tyler is good-looking enough to play Arwen, the only problem is her annoying voice and crap acting. Noticed that "Oh no Frodo, don't give up!!!" - weeping scene in FOTR? what the heck was up with that?! I would've rushed with they dying hobbit-doll to Rivendell, as the doll was about to enter the spirit world.
Anyway, if PJ would've dealt with Arwen like in the books, i wouldn't complain bout Liv Tyler at all. Well, perhaps only for the voice. PJ should've picked a hotter actress to play Eowyn. Eowyn's supposed to be a young woman, 23 years of age. Not a rinkled woman in her 30s.
Hey, why wasn't Ioreth in the movies? Maybe Miranda Otto could've played that chick. Ha ha ha.
In fact, i'd like to change almost the entire LOTR cast coz i think they all stink big time, but maybe that's just because the movies don't follow the books that well. I think only Bilbo, Gandalf and Saruman were decent. Perhaps even Galadriel. Boromir was in fact good either, safe for that dying scene. For one moment, i thought PJ installed "arrow-time" in the movie and that Boromir would dodge the arrows, like a fantasy Neo or something.
I think we're kinda off topic.
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Actually Star Wars is considered a fantasy since it is not earth bound like Star Trek.
Actually Star Wars is considered a fantasy since it is not earth bound like Star Trek.
Star Wars is not, but "Star Wargs" is ! Besides, Star Trek ain't earthbound. Only nerdbound.
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" isn't Arwen suppose to be the most gorgeous women/elf that exists in middle-earth"
I always thought that Galadriel was supposed to be the most beautiful with Feanor trying to get a lock of her hair and Gimli getting all mushy around her. But Kate Blanchette is not all that either. But how could their be a human representing lovliness, someone will always complain about it.
And to Virumor: What is Sar Wargs? Are just combining the star Wars and LotR
" isn't Arwen suppose to be the most gorgeous women/elf that exists in middle-earth"
I always thought that Galadriel was supposed to be the most beautiful with Feanor trying to get a lock of her hair and Gimli getting all mushy around her. But Kate Blanchette is not all that either. But how could their be a human representing lovliness, someone will always complain about it.
And to Virumor: What is Sar Wargs?
Are just combining the star Wars and LotRQuote:
And to Virumor: What is Sar Wargs? Are just combining the star Wars and LotR
And to Virumor: What is Sar Wargs? Are just combining the star Wars and LotR
If you new Virmor just half of what I do, you would have realised that this is Virmor's style of poking fun! And btw its Star Wargs not Sar wargs! Anyways, just keep having fun!
Sorry I'm an terrible at typeing and spelling.
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Sorry I'm an terrible at typeing and spelling
Sorry I'm an terrible at typeing and spelling
Yes, I can notice it in that line too!
Anyways, I'm sorry...don't feel bad. Just having a harmless sarcasm. Never ever mind my humour. It could get a bit touchy! (Ouch!)