You know how in the FOTR movie, Gandalf calls the Balrog in Moria a "Flame of Udun"?
I was just wondering where/what Udun is.
Thread: Udun
Either part of Mordor or Utumno, Old Grumpy's old fortress before the Valar washed that cesspit out.
I just went on the Encyclopedia of Arda and found that Udun is "the valley behind the Gates of Mordor."
I'd thought it referred to some part of Thangorodrim or something...
I'd thought it referred to some part of Thangorodrim or something...
It has connections to Morgoth too, as Virumor noted with Utumno. To add some linguistic interest maybe...
From part of (stress part of) Mr. Hostetter's interesting look at Welsh Annwn, Sindarin Annûn and Udûn.
Quote:
In The Etymologies we find a base TUB-, untranslated, but with a primitive derivation *_tumbu_ 'deep valley'. Cognate with this is the adjectival formation *_tubná_ 'deep', whence N. _tofn_ (note the development *_-bn_ to _-fn_ as in Welsh).
(...) *_Utubnu_, of Melkor's 'vaults in the North', whence Q. _Utumno_, and by regular development (as in Welsh) of medial _t_ to _d_ and of final *_-bn_ > *_-fn_ > _-n_, the Sindarin name _Udûn_. This will be familiar to readers of The Lord of the Rings as the region just behind the Morannon in the extreme north-west of Mordor. A name that Tolkien translates as 'hell'.
(...) The deep parallels in form, meaning, and mythological significance between W. _Annw(f)n_ 'hell' and S. _Udûn_ 'hell' are far more striking than the surface similarity between W. _Annwn_ and S. _Annûn_ 'Sunset, West', but are discoverable only by philological exploration. Just the sort of exploration that Tolkien himself would have loved, I think!' Carl Hostetter
In The Etymologies we find a base TUB-, untranslated, but with a primitive derivation *_tumbu_ 'deep valley'. Cognate with this is the adjectival formation *_tubná_ 'deep', whence N. _tofn_ (note the development *_-bn_ to _-fn_ as in Welsh).
(...) *_Utubnu_, of Melkor's 'vaults in the North', whence Q. _Utumno_, and by regular development (as in Welsh) of medial _t_ to _d_ and of final *_-bn_ > *_-fn_ > _-n_, the Sindarin name _Udûn_. This will be familiar to readers of The Lord of the Rings as the region just behind the Morannon in the extreme north-west of Mordor. A name that Tolkien translates as 'hell'.
(...) The deep parallels in form, meaning, and mythological significance between W. _Annw(f)n_ 'hell' and S. _Udûn_ 'hell' are far more striking than the surface similarity between W. _Annwn_ and S. _Annûn_ 'Sunset, West', but are discoverable only by philological exploration. Just the sort of exploration that Tolkien himself would have loved, I think!' Carl Hostetter
From part of (stress part of) Mr. Hostetter's interesting look at Welsh Annwn, Sindarin Annûn and Udûn.