Thread: Caradhras
I recall reading something to the effect that Caradhras had an evil will, or, rather, that it somehow didn't take kindly to fellowships traipsing over it, trying to pass it.
Does Tolkien illuminate this train of thought anywhere else? Is the mountain actually against travelers, or just these particular travelers?
Celebrían & Arwen had often taken that route to travel between Rivendell & Laurelindorenan with impunity until a minor incident wherein Celebrían ran afoul of a band of Orcs.
I reckon the Lord of the Breath of Arda wanted to test the strength & endurance of those would-be heroes the Fellowship consisted of, and obviously the Nine Runners failed this test and were subsequently sentenced to crawling through the dust & bones of Moria. A rightful punishment, indeed.
But, ironically enough, the foolishness of a Took turned an easy crawl into a frenzied run for survival and led to the death of a Wizard.
I bet the One was really annoyed when the Grey's spirit suddenly came floating upon his doorstep. I can easily imagine him sending this wayward spirit back to whence it came with a casual fling of His Hand.
I reckon the Lord of the Breath of Arda wanted to test the strength & endurance of those would-be heroes the Fellowship consisted of, and obviously the Nine Runners failed this test and were subsequently sentenced to crawling through the dust & bones of Moria. A rightful punishment, indeed.
But, ironically enough, the foolishness of a Took turned an easy crawl into a frenzied run for survival and led to the death of a Wizard.
I bet the One was really annoyed when the Grey's spirit suddenly came floating upon his doorstep. I can easily imagine him sending this wayward spirit back to whence it came with a casual fling of His Hand.
In 'The Ring Goes South' of FotR, Gimli spoke of the mountain's name as "Barazinbar, the Redhorn, cruel Caradhras".
Later on in the same chapter, when they were wondering if the long arm of Sauron was responsible for the bitter weather they were encountering on the mountain, Gimli provided this rebuttal:
Later on in the same chapter, when they were wondering if the long arm of Sauron was responsible for the bitter weather they were encountering on the mountain, Gimli provided this rebuttal:
Quote:
'Caradhras was called the Cruel, and had an ill name,' said Gimli, 'long years ago, when rumour of Sauron had not been heard in these lands.'
'Caradhras was called the Cruel, and had an ill name,' said Gimli, 'long years ago, when rumour of Sauron had not been heard in these lands.'
Yes but was Caradhas a person? Like atlas i mean?
Quote:
Yes but was Caradhas a person? Like atlas i mean?
Yes but was Caradhas a person? Like atlas i mean?
Golly-gee-whiz-fish No! Caradhras was the mountain that turned the Fellowship back with its snowstorm, instead of letting them climb the pass on its shoulder in order to reach the Dimrill Dale from Hollin; thus forcing them to endure the deep, dank, dark, dangerous Mines of Moria.
NO. That i know. My point is that why does Gimli personify Caradhras??
Oh, I suppose Dwarves, like Men are so superstitious that they personify creatures and things with human traits. Sometimes it is just for fun, like giving a car a name or talking to plants in order to make them happy and grow, or in Gimli's case, assigning an evil nature to the mountain which has fluke storms occurring on its pass at all times of the year.
Except this particular fluke storm seemed to hit hardest where the fellowship travelled, and (as legolas found out?) was not near so bad elsewhere. Somewhat of the same idea one gets when the mini-fellowship of four hobbits is "herded" by the Old Forest, except that the forest is actually a living thing, whereas mountains, I don't think of in the same category. The mountain turns them back, but it does seem strange about the timing and the intensity and the location of the storm. Coincidence?
Hmmmmm. Gimli was mentioning that Sauron's arm had grown long, and Gandalf too. Maybe he or one of his Nazgul did it from Dol Guldor?
From 'The Ring Goes South' of FotR where they were talking about the heavy snowfall on the mountain:
Here in the book, Gandalf didn't seem to be refuting the notion.
(One of PJ's numerous poetic movie licenses was that he assigned to Saruman the task of calling down the snow.)
Quote:
'I wonder if this is a contrivance of the Enemy,' said Boromir. 'They say in my land that he can govern the storms in the Mountains of Shadow that stand upon the borders of Mordor. He has strange powers and many allies.'
'His arm has grown long indeed,' said Gimli, 'if he can draw snow down from the North to trouble us here three hundred leagues away.'
'His arm has grown long,' said Gandalf.
'I wonder if this is a contrivance of the Enemy,' said Boromir. 'They say in my land that he can govern the storms in the Mountains of Shadow that stand upon the borders of Mordor. He has strange powers and many allies.'
'His arm has grown long indeed,' said Gimli, 'if he can draw snow down from the North to trouble us here three hundred leagues away.'
'His arm has grown long,' said Gandalf.
Here in the book, Gandalf didn't seem to be refuting the notion.
(One of PJ's numerous poetic movie licenses was that he assigned to Saruman the task of calling down the snow.)
I think this was rather a case of the Hand of Fate/Finger of God... or just the King of Arda himself influencing events he perhaps remembered from the vision shown to him by Ilúvatar after the Music.
The Fellowship needed to pass through Moria for certain monumental events to take place... certain weenies needed to grow which would not be possible with Gandalf the Grey present holding their hands and telling them what to do... not that they grew much in the end, but still.
The Fellowship needed to pass through Moria for certain monumental events to take place... certain weenies needed to grow which would not be possible with Gandalf the Grey present holding their hands and telling them what to do... not that they grew much in the end, but still.
Ah, so what you're saying then. is it was just a part of Eru's Contingency Plan C (or D, or whaterver, toward bringing the downfall of Sauron the Evil.
*sigh*
Must you always be having a go at poor Aragorn, Vir?
Must you always be having a go at poor Aragorn, Vir?
I just wish the last of Isildúr's line would have been more formidable.
Lord Denethor's words ring truer than Big Ben on St George's Day:
Lord Denethor's words ring truer than Big Ben on St George's Day:
Quote:
'But I say to thee, Gandalf Mithrandir, I will not be thy tool! I am Steward of the House of Anárion. I will not step down to be the dotard chamberlain of an upstart. Even were his claim proved to me, still he comes but of the line of Isildur. I will not bow to such a one, last of a ragged house long bereft of lordship and dignity.'
'But I say to thee, Gandalf Mithrandir, I will not be thy tool! I am Steward of the House of Anárion. I will not step down to be the dotard chamberlain of an upstart. Even were his claim proved to me, still he comes but of the line of Isildur. I will not bow to such a one, last of a ragged house long bereft of lordship and dignity.'
Just as well Denethor met his demise in Rath Dinen then; though it might have been better had he met it like Théoden: on the field of battle; though I suppose seeing that might of further disheartened the troops of Gondor, especially with Faramir indisposed.
But I don't think this thread concering Caradhras is the proper place for that discussion about Denethorn or Aragorn though the latter had traversed the mountain, both on the surface and below it during his long career.
But I don't think this thread concering Caradhras is the proper place for that discussion about Denethorn or Aragorn though the latter had traversed the mountain, both on the surface and below it during his long career.