Are elves immortal?

tasari
Posts: 30

Are elves immortal?

Post#1 » Wed Mar 23, 2005 12:44 am

Yes, i think elves are immortal. Tolkien said they only died by being killed, and never got sick.
Still, Elves can die of broken hearts - Luthien, or Arwen, for example.
Hope this helps,
Tasari :elfbiggrin:

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Vee
Posts: 2711

Are elves immortal?

Post#2 » Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:05 am

They are 'immortal' and they are tied to the world but only while the world lasts .

For the Elves die not till the world dies, unless they are slain or waste in grief...

The Silmarillion - Of the Begining of Days

We don't know what happens to them after that. Does that mean that once the world ends so do the Elves? Or is there something else for them after the end of the world? It sounds as though they were granted long life, tied in with the fate of Arda, and after the end of Arda they cease to exist whereas Men join Eru in the second music of the Ainur. However, the Silmarillion says

whereas Illuvatar has not revealed what he purposes for the Elves after the World's end, and Melkor has not discovered it.


This almost suggests that there is something else for the Elves but what?


tasari
Posts: 30

Are elves immortal?

Post#3 » Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:10 am

Maybe the elves feed the Eternal flame? (not in a bad way or anything, just with life force)
Or become Ainur?

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Vee
Posts: 2711

Are elves immortal?

Post#4 » Wed Mar 23, 2005 3:35 am

Throw another Elf on the barbie!


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virumor
Posts: 3567

Are elves immortal?

Post#5 » Wed Mar 23, 2005 4:23 am

Eternal flame... strange that the Bangles seem to pop up everywhere these days.
Give up the Halfring, she-elf...

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grondmaster
Posts: 25451

Are elves immortal?

Post#6 » Wed Mar 23, 2005 4:22 pm

Still, Elves can die of broken hearts - Luthien, or Arwen, for example.
Luthien died of a broken heart? And when Arwen died she was no longer considered Elven, but of Mankind, she had made her choice.

Okay, I went back and read the end of 'Of Beren and Luthien' in The Silmarillion and she did die as an Elf by pining away after the death of Beren. Then after she and Beren were brought back to life, both as mortals this time, they later died having lived out the span of their mortal years.

But Arwen never died as an Elf.
'Share and enjoy'

tasari
Posts: 30

Are elves immortal?

Post#7 » Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:44 pm

I thought Arwen was still an elf, only she had a part of human heratige in her too. I would have thought marriage couldn't change her race.
-Tasari

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aragorn_jr
Posts: 205

Are elves immortal?

Post#8 » Wed Mar 23, 2005 11:42 pm

I think that elves should not be classed as immortal, as the dictionary definition is - not subject to death - and that means not subject to being killed in battle or anything like that. I know that generally they can be called immortal but I dont think that they should be called that by dictionary standards.

Hope it helps.

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Vee
Posts: 2711

Are elves immortal?

Post#9 » Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:39 am

Arwen was an elf when she died but her death was not that of an elf as she did not pass to the Halls of Mandos as elves do but 'suffered the Doom of Men'. IMO anyway. Having said that, it does say that she 'became as a mortal woman' so it is a little confusing. I don't think she could change her physiology though she was an elf who died like a mortal woman. Or is there more to this?

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Amarië
Posts: 2785

Are elves immortal?

Post#10 » Thu Mar 24, 2005 3:24 am

Becoming a human wouldn't mean she would go trough a reversed 'Extreme make-over'. She would still look like the same beautiful Arwen she did when she was an elf. The body is just a place for the soul to live in, it is the soul that changes. I don't think the soul changes much either. Just a new bording pass and an earlier flight. Arwen is still Arwen, only now she will age and die and get a new view on life.
That is what I think anyway. ;)
"Don't complain under the stars
about the lack of bright spots in you life."
Henrik Wergeland, Norwegian writer

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