Galadriel and Gandalf

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Ainulindale
Posts: 36

Galadriel and Gandalf

Post#1 » Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:29 pm


Of the relationship between Gandalf and Galadriel, If Gandalf was Olorin then he spent countless years walking among the Elves as one of them. He was even in Lothlórien as an Elf, I can't help but wonder if there is a timeline as to when Galadriel came over the mountains to Lothlórien and was Olorin (Gandalf) there at that time. One of the many reasons their relationship is so interesting to me is (imo) they were the only two whom The Iluvatar directly intervened through during the War of the Ring and in the end were his favorite of all the Wise Ones



glorfindel
Posts: 285

Galadriel and Gandalf

Post#2 » Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:26 pm


Galadriel went to Lorien some time around the middle of the third age. You're confusing me with their relationship with Iluvatar and the war of the rings. Iluvatar doesn't intervene during the war of the rings. Also there isn't any account that they were Iluvatar's favorite.



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Ainulindale
Posts: 36

Galadriel and Gandalf

Post#3 » Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:59 pm


When Gandalf says"Bilbo was meant to find the ring and not by it's maker" and when Gandalf the Gray (Maiar) returns as Gandalf the white (Valar) i took it to be The Iluvatar that had promoted and returned him to turn the tide. As for Galadriel her knowledge of Frodo and Sam's movements beyond that of Gandalf or anyone else in middle earth even in Mordor where no one could see makes my think. As for being the favorites of the Iluvatar i think the vital role played by both in finally removing Morgoth's influence from the land would endear them to him in a special way. But this is all opinion and an idea in progress your info helped.



glorfindel
Posts: 285

Galadriel and Gandalf

Post#4 » Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:39 pm

Gandalf the white is still a maiar. Neither Gandalf nor Galadriel defeated Morgoth. The only time Illuvatar intervene directly in arda is when coming to the aid of the Valar, stopping the Numernorians.

Balrogs R Us
Posts: 539

Galadriel and Gandalf

Post#5 » Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:54 pm


Now I could be completely wrong about this, but I thought I'd read somewhere the Valar had to first confront Manwe, who would then communicate with Illuvatar to get "permission" to send someone back??



Otherwise I'd have to agree with Glorfindel. Gandalf was given a "promotion," but still remained a maia. Also Galadriel was not necessarily able to see anywhere in ME, especially Mordor, which was known for being covered by a black cloud and always shrouded in darkness. However Ain did say Morgoth's influence and not necessarily Morgoth, so I assumed he referred to characters like Sauron and the WK etc. However Illuvatar did not pick favorites. He loved all his children, even the bad ones. The Vala were the ones with bias. And honestly, of the 5 "wisest" maia you refer to, it's hard to choose a "favorite" in the sense you mean when really Gandalf was the only one who did what he was supposed to. And Galadriel wouldn't really have been any more loved than Elrond, Thranduil, Feanor, Melian etc as they'd all equally be gladly and openly welcome back to Arda.



Also Ain what did you mean by Gandalf being in Lothlorien as an elf??



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Ainulindale
Posts: 36

Galadriel and Gandalf

Post#6 » Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:00 pm


Yes that was what i meant Sauron is the continuation of Melkor his lieutenant. In the Valaquenta Olorin lived in Lorien and walked among the Eleves unseen or as one of them. I have seen somewhere who Olorin served originally and what his job was i can't find it now but it was menial. I think both of them being of humble beginnings at least compared to the other major Valar and Galadriel being one of the in cursed ones and not allowed to return home, Yet in the end they performed the Iluvatar's will better than most and were the last to leave is my point. not so much favorites but over achievers.     



 


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brego
Posts: 1275

Galadriel and Gandalf

Post#7 » Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:48 am

Hi Ainulindale, I think the Lorien, that Mithrandir, Olorin, walked was actually the Gardens of Lorien in Valinor, not Loth Lorien in middle Earth. Lorien in Valinor were gardens where spirits, Maia and Elves walked and revitalised and Olorin spent time with returned Elves upon their release from the Halls of Mandos.


Loth Lorien in Middle Earth was perhaps named after this magnificent garden, perhaps by Galadriel upon its foundation.


Olorin of course was a Maia and did not have the physical body of the Gandalf we know until Iluvatar sent he and the other Istari to Middle Earth to help and aid his children against Sauron. He was mostly invisible to even the Elves until he inhabited his physical body.


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galin
Posts: 1369

Galadriel and Gandalf

Post#8 » Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:37 am


Olorin dwelt in Lorien (in Aman), and his name is connected to 'dream words', for example ola- (impersonal) 'to dream', or olos 'dream, vision, fair construction of the mind', noting that he instilled 'fair visions' in the hearts of some Elves.



Nandorin Elves had lived in 'Lothlorien' or Dreamflower as it later came to be called, well before Galadriel arrived, and the Sindarin Kings Amdir and Amroth had ruled before her.



She was responsible for later Q. Lorien however, equating this with the name Loriand, but this was Sindarized by loth 'flower' as well.



glorfindel
Posts: 285

Galadriel and Gandalf

Post#9 » Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:14 am

I thought Manwe was the one who sent the istari to ME

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Ainulindale
Posts: 36

Galadriel and Gandalf

Post#10 » Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:32 pm


ultimately i was trying to find a connection between Gandalf and Galadriel prior to the Lord of the Rings  and it sounds as if there was not one, Thanks for the great information.



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