Thehobbit : About the woodelfs

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Allyssa
Posts: 1657

Thehobbit : About the woodelfs

Post#2 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

I have to disagree on that one, thehobbit. (welcome, btw :D: )

The elves of Mirkwood were not evil, just suspicious of dwarves, as elves tended to be at the time. Thraduil was a kinsman of Thingol after all!

The giant spiders were the only living thing that they had no mercy on.


Still elves they were and remain, and that is Good People.


Poor Thranduil was under the mistaken impression that Thorin and company were trying to attack his people, which was why he had them imprisoned - with adequate food and water. He could have ordered them executed.

Thranduil may have misinterpreted Thorin's reluctance to explain himself as hiding some sort of plot against him, when really, Thorin was trying to conceal the fact that he was going after his family fortune.

The problem seems to have been elves and dwarves mistrust of each other. A 'misunderstanding' as it was later described in the Council of Elrond.
"May the Angels Guide"

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grondmaster
Posts: 25451

Thehobbit : About the woodelfs

Post#3 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

This mistrust was also evident in Lothlorien with the blindfolds and Celeborn almost jumping down Gimli's throat until Galadriel soothed the way with her smoothing words to Celeborn on Gimli's behalf, for which she received the dwarf's undying admiration.

And the Elves had reason to fear or at least harbor suspicion about the Dwarves intent, for they had an ancient history of doing bad things against the Elves including the sacking of Doriath and later the closing of Khazad-dûm when the Elves sought refuge from Sauron there. Could the 'Emeralds of Girion' have been the 'Nauglamir' sans its Silmaril or were they two separate necklaces?
'Share and enjoy'

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Amarië
Posts: 2785

Thehobbit : About the woodelfs

Post#4 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Did you also notice that in The Hobbit, the Elves lived underground (...) Yet in the LOTR, the Elves live in forests,
In Mirkwood they lived underground, in Lothlorien they lived in the trees. Mirkwood was dark and dangerous and the caves would be a secure place to live. Lothlorien was protected by the magic of Galadriels ring, nothing bad could happen in there.

I do feel the Mirkwoodians cave dvelling was more tree-friendly then the Lothlorien way. They didn't get to live and sleep in the trees, but I do imagine the Lothlorians used quite a lot of wood to build those flets they lived on... ;)
"Don't complain under the stars
about the lack of bright spots in you life."
Henrik Wergeland, Norwegian writer

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Allyssa
Posts: 1657

Thehobbit : About the woodelfs

Post#5 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

The elves of Mirkwood weren't the first to live in Caves. I seem to recall reading somewhere that Thranduil's halls were built in memory of the Menegoroth, the city of Doriath, which was a simillar construction. Nargothrond was also underground and Gondolin was surrounded by very high mountains.

It seems a practical way for elves to live, very defensible (unless assaulted by a dragon) and as Amarie said, it doesn't disturb the forests that the elves love so much.
"May the Angels Guide"

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valedhelgwath
Posts: 4233

Thehobbit : About the woodelfs

Post#6 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Could the 'Emeralds of Girion' have been the 'Nauglamir' sans its Silmaril or were they two separate necklaces?
I believe the Nauglamir passed over the sea into the West with Earendil. The Silmaril was taken out and worn on his brow, but as the necklace was still intact when Elwing took it to him (and he was already at sea at this point), I think it must have gone into the West with them.

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Lasgalen
Posts: 74

Thehobbit : About the woodelfs

Post#7 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Not all the Elves of Mirkwood lived in the caves. Thranduil and his family lived there but most of the Elves lived amongst the trees.

Samwisegamgee
Posts: 607

Thehobbit : About the woodelfs

Post#8 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

I don't think the Mirkwood elves are evil, but I do agree with thehobbit that they are different than other elves. Perhaps some of this is due to the fact that THE HOBBIT was written before LOTR and was originally written as a children story. Tolkien's own ideas about Elves evolved since then.
It is interesting what Allyssa brought up about people in Doriath living in caves, as Thranduil reminds me quite a lot of Thingol.

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Lasgalen
Posts: 74

Thehobbit : About the woodelfs

Post#9 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Thranduil and Thingol are both Sindarin Elves. So it makes sense that they would have similarities.

Eryan
Posts: 845

Thehobbit : About the woodelfs

Post#10 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Many details about caves inhabited by Elves can be found in the History of ME vol. 3 (The lays of Beleriand"). In the lay about Turin Turambar there is a fantastic, very vivid description of Nargothrond, which was quite similar to Moria (at least for me!) and as awesome. The caves of Doriath (Menegroth, the Thousand Caves) are described in detail in the Lay of Leithian.

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