Orcs / Goblins

turner
Posts: 6

Orcs / Goblins

Post#1 » Sat Apr 30, 2005 3:14 pm

Hi!
This is my first post here....stumbled across the site by pure accident but figured i'd give it a shot. anyway....
In The Hobbit, Tolkien refers to Goblins a lot, but in all his other works he uses the term Orcs.
Anyone know why this is? It niggles at me, haha. I'm thinking maybe as it was intended more as a children's book than the others?

ah well.

droll0
Posts: 4

Orcs / Goblins

Post#2 » Wed May 04, 2005 4:25 pm

:dead: *buzzer* actually ive pretty much figured out the goblins thing:
goblin: created by sauron (first attempt)
orc: saron again, better than goblins
urik-hai: breeded by sauromon, perfected orc

so there awnsers your question

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lord_aragorn86
Posts: 2241

Orcs / Goblins

Post#3 » Thu May 05, 2005 7:27 am

The Hobbit was put forward as a children's book. Now "goblin" is not a very uncommon term in kiddy fairytailes and hence the kiddies would be able to identify with "goblin" rather than the term "orc" which is a very uncommon term. The goblins and the orcs are pretty much the same thing but lets say they were more adult-ised in the Lord of the Rings as orcs.

And just for knowledge, its Morgoth who created Orcs/goblins and not Sauron.
I am nobody.....and nobody is perfect.......therefore I am perfect.

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gwaihir
Posts: 206

Orcs / Goblins

Post#4 » Thu May 05, 2005 1:35 pm

Yah Lord Aragorn, and also Goblins live mainly in the misty mountains and Orcs live mainly in Mordor or Dul Guldur or Carn Dum (at least I think so) or somewhere like that.

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Etharion
Posts: 1717

Orcs / Goblins

Post#5 » Thu May 05, 2005 2:22 pm

Thats right Gwaihir. Morgoth created the orcs in the elder days, along with goblins who were their smaller, faster relatives with better noses for tracking scent. Sauron used the orcs as well, and later he developed the uruk-hai and the olog-hai. They are both stronger, more daylight resistant orcs, as big as men and fierce in combat. Saruman did not design the uruk-hai (as in the movie) that is a common misconcepcion.

fingolfin
Posts: 161

Orcs / Goblins

Post#6 » Thu May 05, 2005 3:15 pm

possibly the both started from the same root species and develped along different paths? would explain why the "goblins" are predominant in the caves and mountains
Droll0, read around the site, theres a wealth of information to be found that wouldnt be known by someone who (i suspect) became a fan through the movies and hasnt yet fully read the book(s)

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virumor
Posts: 3567

Orcs / Goblins

Post#7 » Thu May 05, 2005 3:23 pm

Sauron used the orcs as well, and later he developed the uruk-hai and the olog-hai. They are both stronger, more daylight resistant orcs, as big as men and fierce in combat. Saruman did not design the uruk-hai (as in the movie) that is a common misconcepcion.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Sauron did not develop the Uruk-Hai, nor had any dominion over them. It was Saruman who made them and was their master. The movies aren't wrong all the time.

Treebeard :
He has taken up with foul folk, with the Orcs. Brm, hoom! Worse than that: he has been doing something to them; something dangerous. For these Isengarders are more like wicked Men. It is a mark of evil things that came in the Great Darkness that they cannot abide the Sun; but Saruman's Orcs can endure it, even if they hate it. I wonder what he has done? Are they Men he has ruined, or has he blended the races of Orcs and Men? That would be a black evil!'


Goblins are just a branch of Orcs, who live in the Misty Mountains. Just like elves and men, there are lots of types of Orcs. That's perfectly normal. Hoom!
Give up the Halfring, she-elf...

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grondmaster
Posts: 25451

Orcs / Goblins

Post#8 » Thu May 05, 2005 4:31 pm

Sauron used the orcs as well, and later he developed the uruk-hai and the olog-hai.
The Olog-hai were bred by Sauron when he was in Southern Mirkwood at Dol Guldur and they were not made from Orc stock but from Trolls.
Some held that they were not Trolls but giant Orcs; but the Olog-hai were in fashion of body and mind quite unlike even the largest of Orc-kind whom they surpassed in size and power, Trolls they were, but filled with evil will of their master: a fell race, strong, agile, fierce and cunning, but harder than stone. Unlike the older of their race of the Twilight they could endure the Sun, so long as the will of Sauron held sway over them. - from Return of the King, Part I of Appendix F under Trolls.
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valedhelgwath
Posts: 4233

Orcs / Goblins

Post#9 » Fri May 06, 2005 1:29 pm

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Sauron did not develop the Uruk-Hai, nor had any dominion over them. It was Saruman who made them and was their master. The movies aren't wrong all the time.


Sorry Vir, but it was Sauron who first bred the Uruk hai, around TA 2475. It was these Uruks that over-ran Ithilien and sacked Osgiliath at this time. The original Uruks were superiour orcs, who as well as being stronger were able to withstand sunlight. What Saruman did later was to cross Uruk hai with Men.

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virumor
Posts: 3567

Orcs / Goblins

Post#10 » Fri May 06, 2005 3:20 pm

Oh no, i have made a mistake. Time for seppuku.

Saruman developed his own breed of Orcs, which called themselves the Uruk-Hai. It is not correct that he didn't develop any orcs in the books. This i was trying to point out.

And as far as i know, only Saruman's orcs called themselves Uruk-Hai. To me Uruk-Hai always were the Isengard ones, nothing else.
Give up the Halfring, she-elf...

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