your favourite dwarf?

User avatar
Túrin Turambar
Posts: 614

your favourite dwarf?

Post#51 » Tue Dec 19, 2006 3:17 pm

Gimli granted access to Valinor? Is that for real? I recall reading something on that before, but highly doubted he would be allowed access.

I just don't see what makes Gimli so special to have the Valar's grace and give him access to Valinor...

User avatar
Lord Of All
Posts: 633

your favourite dwarf?

Post#52 » Tue Dec 19, 2006 3:19 pm

I believe Vir is right on this one (there you are Vir you got that in writing!)

Only Gandalf was allowed to go to Valinor. the Rest were permitted only to Tol Eressea as was expected of the Noldor (becuase of there rebelion) and that was a true gift enough for the others...
Legolas however I would imagine would be permitted to go to Valinor, as he was of course not a Noldor.

User avatar
mellon
Posts: 6262

your favourite dwarf?

Post#53 » Tue Dec 19, 2006 3:29 pm

Legolas however I would imagine would be permitted to go to Valinor, as he was of course not a Noldor.

I thought that Gimli was also so that he could live the rest of his life with his new friend :) If not where did he go ?

User avatar
Lord Of All
Posts: 633

your favourite dwarf?

Post#54 » Tue Dec 19, 2006 3:33 pm

I am not saying Legolas DID go to valinor. i am saying that I cannot see why the Valar would hinder him from doing so. I suspect that legolas probably waited for the old Dwarves life to end before he left him. The Great duo they were. A mark of frindeship rarely heard of between the Adopted and the Chosen children of Iluvatar.

User avatar
grondmaster
Posts: 25451

your favourite dwarf?

Post#55 » Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:34 pm

I think Lord of All has it right about Gimli and Legolas's journey towards Valinor. Only Legolas arrived there, and only after Gimli finally died; and this assumes their ship didn't swamp after leaving Middle-earth's harbor. All the Appendices to LotR tell us is that they left together, our sense of fairness and our imagination tell us they actually arrived.
'Share and enjoy'

User avatar
Túrin Turambar
Posts: 614

your favourite dwarf?

Post#56 » Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:47 pm

Mellon
I thought that Gimli was also so that he could live the rest of his life with his new friend If not where did he go ?

If that was the case then why couldn't the other members of the fellowship have the privilege to do the same as Gimli? Obviously we know Frodo, Bilbo and Samwise had that gift, but for different reasons completely. In the 1st Age there were many greater Elves than Legolas and they befriended men who were lords of men of the Edain, whom did as great if not greater deeds than Gimli, and they were still not allowed access to the undying lands. I just don't see why Gimli should be allowed the grace of the Elves and Aragorn, Túrin, Húrin, Beren, etc... (The list go on for quite some time) were not granted access.
I believe after Gimli died he would have gone to the halls of his fathers and dwell there until after the Final Battle was over and the dwarves helped to rebuild Arda.

It is also stated at the end of the Akallabeth,
And tales and rumours arose along the shores of the sea concerning mariners and men forlorn upon the water who, by fate or grace of favour of the Valar, had entered in upon the Straight Way and seen the face of the world sink below them, and so had come to the lamplit quays of Avallone, or verily to the last beaches on the margin of Aman, and there had looked upon the White Mountain, dreadful and beautiful, before they died.

We all know Dwarves are not fond of forests, and i doubt water, so in that case I think it's safe to say almost all the Dwarves never tried to sail the seas. Although Tolkien wisely uses the word 'mariners' along with men, even though Gimli was one of these mariners and sailed to Valinor with Legolas... Well the end of the quote can provide your answer as to what happens to him.

User avatar
Lord Of All
Posts: 633

your favourite dwarf?

Post#57 » Wed Dec 20, 2006 3:56 am

Legolas was not of the Noldor (who were permitted only to Tol Eressea with Finarfin there High King). That is why he may have been permitted to journey to Valinor. Gimli, like Frodod and Bilbo, was a mortal so doubtful would be permitted to go to Valinor itself. Gandalf was a Maiar and perhaps the key factor of the War of the Ring, so of course nothing is stopping him going over to Valinor.

User avatar
virumor
Posts: 3567

your favourite dwarf?

Post#58 » Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:48 am

I just don't see what makes Gimli so special to have the Valar's grace and give him access to Valinor...

It's suggested in the LOTR Appendices that Galadriel would have granted this for him.

As for the Noldor, since they were forgiven at the end of the First Age, they could all go to Valinor again, and to Tirion their city where Finarfin lives. The reason that many Elves coming from Middle-earth reside at Tol Eresseä, is simply because they still wish to stay in touch with Middle-earth, so to speak. Their hearts are torn apart between the Undying Lands and Middle-earth.

It's kinda the same reason why the Teleri lived in Alqualondë by the Sea and never moved 'inward'.
Give up the Halfring, she-elf...

User avatar
Fionwë Urion
Posts: 801

your favourite dwarf?

Post#59 » Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:08 am

He is without sin, cast the first tomato... and keep in mine that the castee is a Council Member... *ominous glare*.


Point well made, I'll throw the squash instead then! :orcgin:

User avatar
grondmaster
Posts: 25451

your favourite dwarf?

Post#60 » Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:37 pm

Point well made, I'll throw the squash instead then!


Why do things half-slow; use a watermellon or a Roc egg instead.
'Share and enjoy'

Return to “The Hobbit”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests