what gandalf says?

Marco
Posts: 63

what gandalf says?

Post#1 » Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:35 pm

in the hobbit on page,97 . Gandalf says"I must see if i cantfind a more or less decent giant to block it up agian", i dont understand what he means? does he command mountian giants to do stuff for him?

Ar-Edain
Posts: 735

what gandalf says?

Post#2 » Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:24 am

As a ?Maiar? who has been traveling Middle-Earth for centuries, steeped in the languages and lore of every race and individual he came across, it is granted that Gandalf would have many aquzintances and connections. Middle-Earth being a land of numerous beings, and gandalf's travels being as broad as they were, it is more than likely that, at some point, he would have encountered one of these giants. After learning their language, it is quite possible that Gandalf could have developed a friendly relationship with one or more of these giants. It is also possible that a giant may be indebted to Gandalf, who, being a wizard and all, may have used his wisdom or powers to aid a giant in the past.
Gandalf, therefore, would not have to "command" mountain giants. He would only have to make the request that the giant plug up the whole so that travelers are not enslaved or eaten by the more uncouth inhabitants of the subterranean. Any decent giant would be more than willing to render such a simple, yet nonetheless beneficial, service to the greater population.
Although it is also possible that, during his many escapades, Gandalf may have performed some deed that would have earned him leadership over the mountain giants. This is unlikely, however, because Gandalf seems to have preferred to remain politically neutral so as to prevent the complication of his already complex and numerous duties as a semi-divine guardian of what is just and good.

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gandalf-olorin
Posts: 481

what gandalf says?

Post#3 » Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:16 pm

Well said. I concur.

Gandalf

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grondmaster
Posts: 25451

what gandalf says?

Post#4 » Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:49 pm

Me too.

And not having any of Saruman's blasting powder, or whatever it was that Saruman's Uruks used to open the hole in the outer wall at Helm's Deep, a giant was probably the best individual to collapse the tunnel openings. Dain's Dwarven Warriors assuredly would also have been able to do the trick.

But I have an idea that Gandalf's line was a 'throw away' line and he never followed through with the project, due to a previous, and more pressing engagement at Dol Guldur.

Still, something must have been done, for the Beornings were able to keep the Mountain Pass open circa Bilbo's Long Expected Party.
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Marco
Posts: 63

what gandalf says?

Post#5 » Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:37 pm

thanks guys, one more question if i may. umm its about beorn,... i, ummm, whats up with him how did he become a shapeshifter did the valorr send him as a shapeshifter to protect that part of the land or was he created by morgoth like half the creatures in midle earth. and why did he alll of a sudden become kinder when gandalf mentioned radagast living near there?

Ar-Edain
Posts: 735

what gandalf says?

Post#6 » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:53 pm

Radagast, like Beorn, lived in peace and friendship with the other creatures of the world. That was a common bond between them that was conducive toward friendship. When Gandalf mentioned Radagast, Beorn realized that he was speaking with a friend-of-a-friend, which is slightly better than a stranger.
As for Beorn's shape shifting ability, I think Tolkien meant to leave that to the readers' imaginations. It would make sense to me that, early in Middle-Earth's history, a man may have somehow found favor in the eyes of a Valor, who may have given him the ability to help him out of a tight spot. Being a bear can be very convenient at times, such as when the weather is dangerously cold or you are unarmed and surrounded by unfriendly beings. That man who was given the ability most likely passed it on to his children. As far as I know Tolkien does not give an explanation, the mystery only makes the story that much richer and more unpredictable for me.
You should also keep in mind that Tolkien wrote The Hobbit just as a story. Years later, he decided that he would use it as a legitimate chronicle of Middle-Earth. Because it was originally intended to stand on its own, the book may have a few loose ends that Tolkien never got around to tying off.

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Thorin Oakenshield
Posts: 4593

what gandalf says?

Post#7 » Fri Aug 08, 2008 6:04 am

I agree with ar-edain. I thinks that Beorn's story was supposed to be a mystery as the Goblin wars and the wars of moria had to be. I think that all of you who read The Hobbit before LOTR must have been fascinated by the various allusions to the goblin wars.
The Old that is Strong does not Wither.

elanorraine
Posts: 306

what gandalf says?

Post#8 » Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:53 am

Because it was originally intended to stand on its own, the book may have a few loose ends that Tolkien never got around to tying off.


Interestingly, he did "tie up" the gollum/ring finding story - does anyone happen to have a copy of the "first" version (which prompted the line I, having read the revised version of the Hobbit, always puzzled over in The Fellowship of the Ring, about Bilbo having told/wrote a different version of the story previously.) But as the ominous nature of the ring was central to LoTR, this is not surprising. Beorn will not have had this urgent need to be explained and "fit in" to the rest of the mythology.

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turin
Posts: 422

what gandalf says?

Post#9 » Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:31 pm

I think it should also be point out that Middle Earth is a land of magic, so it wouldn't necessarily require that the valar themselves bless a man, Radagast perhaps had the power to do so.
As for Bilbo's different version, I always thought that referenced how he had at first lied to the dwarves of how he escaped and found the ring, not that the book was any different.

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galin
Posts: 1369

what gandalf says?

Post#10 » Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:31 am

Yes, the original story was different: just for example, Gollum promises that if he loses the riddle game he will give Bilbo a present -- the magic ring that Bilbo has already found.

According to Hammond and Scull, Tolkien once wrote to his publishers: 'I have decided to accept the existence of both versions of Chapter Five, so far as the sequel goes' and he found a solution in the Ring quickly asserting some control over Bilbo, whose false account was (said to be) set down in his memoirs, and seemingly still appeared in the Red Book.

Tolkien considered revising the entire Hobbit to make it better fit with The Lord of the Rings. He began it, but didn't finish it. For example in this version Gandalf could not read the writing on the swords due to dried Orc-blood.

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