What if...

faramirsgirl
Posts: 41

What if...

Post#1 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

I agree that Sam would have made a better ringbearer than Frodo.

At first when he had the ring, he though of how great it would be if he just took the ring for his own, but quickly dismissed the thought because he realized that he was just a simple hobbit and couldn't master the will of the ring. Though while he might have done a better job carrying the ring, people reading the book probably wouldn't take the ring as seriously as a real threat to people's (or hobbit's) minds, so it does serve somewhat of a purpose that Frodo ended up carrying the ring.

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ladyoflegolas
Posts: 504

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Post#2 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

yeah that what i think...

celtavhc
Posts: 37

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Post#3 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

I think that what made Sam stronger than Frodo was his loyalty to his friend and his comprehension of the dangerous task he and Frodo got in, while Frodo was always trying to forget what he was going to do...

LadyFeawen
Posts: 1682

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Post#4 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

I dont care... ;)
It seams to me Frodo was the best choice.
Sam would not have been Sam if he had takin the ring.
:puppy: LadyFeawen :cat:

nn[Edited on 6/8/2003 by LadyFeawen]
I was born to catch dragons in their dens
And pick flowers
To tell tales and laugh away the morning
To drift and dream like a lazy stream
And walk barefoot across sunshine days.

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Tyrhael
Posts: 1187

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Post#5 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

I don't care... It seems to me that Frodo was the best choice. Sam would not have been Sam if he had taken the Ring.


I agree. If Sam had the Ring instead of Frodo, then eventually he wouldve been tempted; the Ring would offer him wealth, power, etc., Rosie at his side, and he would have to choose for both of them (Sam and Rosie), and live with that decision. Frodo was a much safer choice for Ringbearer because he was emotionally unattached (as far as I know).

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gnampie
Posts: 275

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Post#6 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Well, this is difficult. Sam is my favourite character but I believe in one way Sam is stronger than Frodo and in an other way he isn't.

I don't doubt that Sam would have been able to throw the ring in the fire of Mount Doom. I do believe in that way he is stronger than Frodo and the Ring wouldn't have that much power over him. Exactly because like Prog said, Sam is more "simple". That's also the reason, why he is the only one of the fellowship who comes unchanged out of this adventure.

But Sam's weakness is that he doesn't think very high of himself. He believes he's clumpsy and not so bright. So I wonder if he would ever made it to Mount Doom. Certainly not alone. He would need someone with him.
Frodo had much more selfrespect and selfestimation and even he wouldn't have got to Mount Doom without Sam. Not only because Sam protected him, saved him from Shelob and the Orcs and carried him when he had no strength left, but also because Sam kept Frodo from losing his mind, from going mad. There Sam proves again that he's strong.
So my point is, Sam would have needed someone too.

But I think his lack of selfrespect would cause him to fail. Imagine the scene when Boromir tries to take the Ring from Frodo. Suppose Sam is standing there alone, unsure of himself, doubting if he would ever succeed (like Frodo also did). Then Boromir shows up. He didn't use violence at once. He first tried to talk Frodo out of destroying the Ring. What would happen if Boromir would tell Sam that he feels sorry for him, bearing such a heavy burden. Asking Sam to give him the Ring, so he would be relieved. That it would be better to use the Ring in stead of destroying it. How would Sam react? What would he think? That such a big and important warrior like Boromir would know better that this simple Hobbit? Would that be in his mind so he would hand over the Ring? Or would he have the strength to remember Gandalf's words? Would he remember his promise to Gandalf? But I am convinced if Boromir would try to take the Ring by force, Sam would never give it up.

But then there is a second difficulty: would he decide to leave the fellowship? I don't think he would. I don't think Sam would ever decide to leave them all behind and sneak out alone. He's too loyal to do that. Here he would need someone like Frodo to convince him to separate from the group and continue by just the two of them.

Well, those are just a few of my thoughts. :)

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valedhelgwath
Posts: 4233

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Post#7 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Nice post, gnampie.

It seems to me that for all of its power of corruption, the Ring seems to take a while discovering a person's weakness before it begins undermining them. The Ring had little effect on Sam while he wielded it even though he was in Mordor at the time. I think this was because Sam's altruistic motives were something the Ring was unable to understand in the short time he was in possession of it. Had he been the bearer for longer, however, it would have eventually discovered some weakeness it could manipulate him through. Like you mentioned, his lack of self esteem could very well have been used against him, possibly even urging him to surrender the Ring to someone more to its liking.

This is also possibly a reason Sam was able to be in Frodo (and the Ring's) presence for so long without becoming corrupted by it. We generally assume here, that it was Sam's personality and lack of interest in power that enabled him to remain uncorrupted. It may, however, have been the case of the Ring having little interest in him because it considered him worthless to its purpose. The Ring was intelligent. Maybe it selected its victims (as it fell from Gollum's fingers when it wanted to escape the mountain). Maybe it sent out stronger signals to those it sensed that it could best use.

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Lasgalen
Posts: 74

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Post#8 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Sam assisted Frodo. His loyalty and his help got them through. Who would have done that for Sam if he were the ringbearer?

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valedhelgwath
Posts: 4233

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Post#9 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

That is a good point, Lasgalen. Frodo did not succeed alone. He would not have got very far at all without Sam. Sam was the perfect companion, always there to help. Were he the ringbearer, he would not have anyone who could fill that role, and would therefore go unsupported.

I think this is the whole point that Tolkien was making about Sam, however. His entire role was supposed to be that of a companion. In this role he excelled, just as Aragorn did at tracking, or Legolas firing a bow. Just because he isn't a warrior or a wizard he tends to get overlooked somewhat, but for the role he was sent on the quest to do (eg. be a companion for Frodo), there was no one better.

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gnampie
Posts: 275

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Post#10 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Thanks Val!


Sam assisted Frodo. His loyalty and his help got them through. Who would have done that for Sam if he were the ringbearer?


I believe Frodo would support Sam, no matter what. Next to Bilbo and Gandalf, Sam was the one he was most close with. I think they were very good friends. But somehow, I also have this feeling Sam's friendship for Frodo was bigger than Frodo's friendship for Sam.

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