How come there are so few females in LotR?

sepdet
Posts: 64

How come there are so few females in LotR?

Post#1 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

When I was a kid, there was Maggie Thatcher and Indira Gandhi. All the other world leaders were men. You could say that what Thatcher and Gandhi lacked in numbers they made up for in importance. Except there were hundreds more equally important world leaders who were guys.

So that argument doesn't convince me. Again, I'm certainly not surprised this is true in Tolkien's writing, since that was the world he lived in. I'm not going to quibble with him for writing like someone who grew up in the Victorian era, because that's exactly what he was! I just don't see his portrayal of gender roles as very balanced. Eowyn and Galadriel are about the only game in town. Whereas there are many, many wonderful guys in this saga, from Imrahil to Merry, Aragorn to Bilbo, Beregond to Legolas, Theoden to Beorn. They rock.

But I've got my own biases, as is no doubt obvious. ;) nn[Edited on 4/27/03 by sepdet]

Delidia
Posts: 367

How come there are so few females in LotR?

Post#2 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Maybe...because the books were about war and turmoil in Middle-Earth, and women didnt necesarily fight in wars back then. There are females in the books, just not THAT much, like as much as males. i DONT think that Tolkien was a sexist, cause he certainly wasnt, he was just....making it fit with time. This was supposed to take place a looooong time ago, was it not? And women weren't in wars or war books/movies...unless it was a sappy yucky downright messed up love story like Titanic or Pearl Harbor. And im betting Tolkien didnt want to make his books seem like that. Yuck, i gagged throughout all of Pearl Harbor and Titanic. Yucky-yucky!

Hey, why do you want to know, you want to be in the movies? Kiss a very handsome elf? LOL, j/k, j/k :funnylaugh: :funnylaugh: :funnylaugh: :funnylaugh: :P: :funnylaugh: :funnylaugh: :D ;)

celtavhc
Posts: 37

How come there are so few females in LotR?

Post#3 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Well, this might have something to do with Tolkien's life, read about Tolkien and his friends in "Biography"... Hope I helped...

And I think that Aragorn and Arwen are the perfect couple! Tolkien really got to the point with their love!nn[Editado em 17/4/03 por celtavhc]

MadWannabe
Posts: 170

How come there are so few females in LotR?

Post#4 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Seriouly I do not know why and even though some critics call Tolkien a sexist, I do not believe so.
Although I will not want to pretend that there are the same number of female as that of males, I feel that the numbers do not necessarily count for importance in the show. Take Galadriel for example, she is considered the wisest of all the elves in middle-earth, even Elrond is incomparable compared to her. Galadriel was also the Lady of the forest while Celeborn just played a supporting role to her. Another example may be Eowyn. Have you ever wandered why it is the fate of the witch-king to be slain by a woman and not a man. It goes to prove that even though the women are few in LOTR, they played incredibly important roles in it, even comparable to the fellowship of the ring. So, the few females in LOTR are not to show flaws in Tolkien's writings but to show that few women are able to do what hundreds of men couldn't! ;)

Airecristiel
Posts: 1001

How come there are so few females in LotR?

Post#5 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Yes, exactly my point, MadWannabe, the women who were in LotR played very important roles. So why so few of them? It could not have been sexism, I don't even consider that.
This wasn't a question of critisism, I was just wondering. :)
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much."
/Oscar Wilde

MadWannabe
Posts: 170

How come there are so few females in LotR?

Post#6 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Heh...this is going to sound lame...but lets use the theory of proportion here...if there are numerous women with such capabilities, there will be no room for men to play a part! :funnylaugh:

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PlasticSquirrel
Posts: 3577

How come there are so few females in LotR?

Post#7 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

It's to do with the time of writing, I've gone into this before (can't remember where though) and because Tolkien was writing back in the 30s, through to the 40s, women were generally just stay at home wives and mothers back in those days, sexism wasn't even a real concept back then. Despite this, I contend that because of the strong nature of Tolkien's female characters, this was feminist writing from a certain angle. There were few female characters, true, but then women didn't really go out and fight back then, and this is a book about a war. It is the same thing as the accusations of Racism levelled at the book, it was just the social norm at the time, you cannot compare Lotr to contemporary writing, as values were very very different when it was written, Germaine Greer was still in nappies for god's sake!
Hope this helps a bit.
http://www.plasticsquirrel.co.uk for all your bizarre music and musings needs

Samwisegamgee
Posts: 607

How come there are so few females in LotR?

Post#8 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Seriouly I do not know why and even though some critics call Tolkien a sexist, I do not believe so.
Although I will not want to pretend that there are the same number of female as that of males, I feel that the numbers do not necessarily count for importance in the show. Take Galadriel for example, she is considered the wisest of all the elves in middle-earth, even Elrond is incomparable compared to her. Galadriel was also the Lady of the forest while Celeborn just played a supporting role to her. Another example may be Eowyn. Have you ever wandered why it is the fate of the witch-king to be slain by a woman and not a man. It goes to prove that even though the women are few in LOTR, they played incredibly important roles in it, even comparable to the fellowship of the ring. So, the few females in LOTR are not to show flaws in Tolkien's writings but to show that few women are able to do what hundreds of men couldn't! ;)


Bravo Mad! Took the words right out of my mouth! That is exactly what I think.
As to why so few women. Tolkien, as was normal for many men in his time, did not have many close women friends except his wife. He did however greatly love and respect his mother, her intelligence and bravery. I think that you can see this in the fact that many women in his stories are very wise.

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MelliotSandybanks
Posts: 1517

How come there are so few females in LotR?

Post#9 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

That is very true Sam, Tolkien does not have a lot of female characters, but the ones he does have are all, very wise, and have strong personalities. I believe that shows Tolkien's respect for women. He does not have any of the "poor helpless pathetic females" that a lot of writers put in their stories. Thank goodness.

Nessa
Posts: 86

How come there are so few females in LotR?

Post#10 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Yeah I think I agree fully with Sam and Melliot, I only was thinking over one point. How you want to write over more women? I mean What you think wich jobs this women had to do?? It ist a easy live and normely in every society the women are the mothers and the childcarer

and this is a book about a war

In this way I think allways wat I want to read over women in this way?? I think Tolkien did it very good, he showed use a few fantastic women and okay the other women? Isnt it the same today?? We women are normely live not an laudly live or??

Okay I hope you understand ;-) And bey then Nessa

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