Men in Middle Earth

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asteroth
Posts: 137

Men in Middle Earth

Post#1 » Mon Jan 19, 2004 9:06 am

I was reading Silmarillion,again, the other day and something caught my attention;
Are there any black races in Middle-Earth?

We can count orcs as black but what i mean is, black men as Gondorians or Rohirrim. As much as i know Haradrim are close to black skinned people but not completely black.
So, anyone has an idea?

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valedhelgwath
Posts: 4233

Men in Middle Earth

Post#2 » Mon Jan 19, 2004 9:51 am

I believe the people of the forests of Far Harad were black skinned, although I cannot remember where I read it.

iverna
Posts: 5

Men in Middle Earth

Post#3 » Mon Jan 19, 2004 11:06 am

Hello,

I know people who are black. The Variags of Khand. They are a mix of Orcs, Trolls and Me. They only live in the second age. Or better they beginn to existed in the second age and still live in the 4 Age. I know this for sure, then I play a Variag in a rpg ;-). And they only have charakters who are very very near at Tolkiens - Mind ( so I am the only Variag :-) there).
But so if you need some more informationen about them, I have a few thinks, tell me.
Greetings

Iverna alias Nessa
alias [b]Nessa[/b]

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valedhelgwath
Posts: 4233

Men in Middle Earth

Post#4 » Mon Jan 19, 2004 6:22 pm

I know people who are black. The Variags of Khand.


Middle Earth Role Playing describes Variags as being black skinned but I have been unable to find any references in any of Tolkien's writings to confirm this. I would guess they are most likely a tribe of Easterling/Haradrim descent.

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grondmaster
Posts: 25451

Men in Middle Earth

Post#5 » Mon Jan 19, 2004 7:26 pm

I only remember that the Haradrim were swarthy, but I always assumed the farther south toward the Girdle of Arda (Ea's equator), the more pigmentation would be found in the Men living there as pigmentation is natures way of combating the harmful ultra-violet rays found in sunlight, which is in higher abundance in the equatorial regions of planets whose axis of rotation is inclined (tilted) with respect to the plane of its transit around the central star (Sol, Sun, Anar, Vása). If this pigmentation thing is an old wives tale, please set the record straight, for I do not wish to offend anyone.
'Share and enjoy'

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asteroth
Posts: 137

Men in Middle Earth

Post#6 » Tue Jan 20, 2004 4:15 am

So Grondy, you're assuming that there could be black people in Middle-Earth but Tolkien never mentions about them in neither of his books right?

iverna
Posts: 5

Men in Middle Earth

Post#7 » Tue Jan 20, 2004 2:47 pm


I know people who are black. The Variags of Khand.



Middle Earth Role Playing describes Variags as being black skinned but I have been unable to find any references in any of Tolkien's writings to confirm this. I would guess they are most likely a tribe of Easterling/Haradrim descent.


I know a passage from Tolkiens writing where he discribes the Variags as black scinned, but it is a very long text (more then 2 pages) and I dont know in this moment the original place, where you can read it, so if you are intressted I send you the text, or I post it here. And I will get the information where the text is from.

Iverna alisa Nessa.
alias [b]Nessa[/b]

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valedhelgwath
Posts: 4233

Men in Middle Earth

Post#8 » Tue Jan 20, 2004 3:14 pm

so if you are intressted I send you the text, or I post it here. And I will get the information where the text is from.


If you could that would be great, Iverna. I've always wanted to know more about the Variags myself. I've read somewhere that they were black skinned and red eyed, but I think that was a MERP description rather than a Tolkien one.

iverna
Posts: 5

Men in Middle Earth

Post#9 » Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:25 pm

Okay, I am really sorry....I am really sorry, the next time I shut my mouth and get the information bevor I talk such b******t. Val you surley right > there are no direclty information from Tolkien .... :ignore: me..it is the best ;-)

No all my information are from the :


"Lords of Middle-earth, Vol. 2 - The Mannish Races" (LoME2) ICE the Iron?? Crown Enterprises


So I am sorry or making you maby dissy or what the best word in english is for that ....

greeting Iverna...
alias [b]Nessa[/b]

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valedhelgwath
Posts: 4233

Men in Middle Earth

Post#10 » Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:36 pm

That's a pity Iverna. I really hoped you were going to point me in the direction of something I'd missed. I would love to know more about the Variags and Khand.

That's a great book you're using though. That's the one with the histories of the nine nazgul before they got their rings, isn't it. They are really convincing. After playing MERP and Rolemaster for a good many years while using those books, I found I had problems sorting Tolkien "fact" from Iron Crown "fiction". I remember arguing the case of the existance of Perterog half trolls with other members because I'd become so used to seeing them while RPG'ing.

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