Tolkien´s Flaw

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Tolkien´s Flaw

Post#1 » Wed Feb 18, 2004 1:56 pm

After reading Tolkien´s work over and over, I think I discovered the first flaw Ever in the Lotr compilation. Well, that is why I think feedback from people like you is required, for you are peers to me in this journey:
It is said, and clearly depicted in The Return of the King (even in the movie) that Bilbo´s age caught up with him after departing from the One Ring. In his Years of having obtained it in March of the year 2941 and leaving it to Frodo on the night of the Long Expected Party, on his eleventy-one birthday, Sept. 22, 3001, Sixty years had passed. So, after delaying that 60 years burden, those years wore heavilly on Bilbo, who, when he left over the seas on 3021, had barely the strenght to talk. No problem there, I hope you follow me still.
Now, the Ring was found in the River Isen on the year 2463 and came to Smeagol that same day. If Gollum parted from the One Ring in the year 2941, he had it for 478 years. 478 that should catch up with him the same way as with Bilbo. Probably even worse. By March 25, 3019 whe he fell after fighting Frodo for the Ring, 78 years had passed. This means that not only Gollum had to be 78 years older than when he lost the Ring. That ammount of years alone is tiresome. Now add those 478 years of catching up..! He shouldn´t have been able to walk, least run and escape from Aragorn, the Elves, Gandalf, and Morgoth himself.
Thinking this throughly, I came to the question of state of mind, but Gollum is as much a Hobbit as Bilbo. And eating raw fish and young Goblins surely doesn´t prolong life.
So, there. I dropped it on your laps now. Forgive me if there is a mistake, I am hazy on the dates.
Namärie!Quel marth mellonamin,
Merin sa haryallë alassë!

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Post#2 » Wed Feb 18, 2004 2:15 pm

Hmmm.... very interesting! Very interesting indeed! Great post!
My guess is that since Gollum/Smeagol had the Ring for so long, and it currupted and changed him over such a long period of time, that the effect took longer to wear off then it did for Bilbo, who only had it for a short period of time compared to Gollum.

Now let us hear from those who know more of this matter than I do. :)
"Don't complain under the stars
about the lack of bright spots in you life."
Henrik Wergeland, Norwegian writer

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Post#3 » Wed Feb 18, 2004 2:25 pm

I've always looked at it from the point of view of the Nazgul and the Nine Rings. They only became wraiths after the rings had prolonged their lives beyond their natural lifespan. I think the same is possibly occuring here with Gollum. While Bilbo lived longer than any other Hobbit, he rid himself of the ring while he was still living within his alloted natural lifespan. Gollum obviously didn't. Though he wasn't a wraith, he did resemble a kind of a ghoul. By keeping him alive beyond his alloted mortal years, the Ring had turned Gollum into some kind of quasi-undead from which there was no return.

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Post#4 » Wed Feb 18, 2004 5:10 pm

Awesome observation!!!!!! I think kind of the same as Amarie, Gollum having the ring for so long gave him unnatural long life and he had the ring for so long he wasn't neccesarily a hobbit anymore he was a creature. Also maybe since he was so close to Frodo during most of the quest that it still poisened his mind and kept giving him that unnatural long life, while Bilbo was far away in Rivendell turning back into old Bilbo. Now heres a completely diferent thought what if Tolkien meant the after the ring was destroyed Bilbo's age caught up with him (I don't know because I've just started reading The Return of the King so correct me if I'm wrong). We don't know about Gollum after the ring because he sizzled and died, the ring from far away could still be poisening Bilbos mind so he stays alive and this would make sense for Gollum to still be alive after so long of not having the ring! So my thought is that the ring kept Gollum and Bilbo alive and when it was destroyed their ages caught up with them, and Gollum of course died but not because of my theory!! So there you go!!

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Post#5 » Mon Feb 23, 2004 1:32 pm

I agree with the prvious posts about Gollum having had the One for so long and the effects it had on him. I would also add that his lustful desire for the ring filled him with purpose, whereas Bolbo had retired. The overpowering need for Gollum to recover the ring could help drive him to keep going until he could reclaim it.

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Post#6 » Mon Feb 23, 2004 1:33 pm

Sorry for the shocking spelling in my last post, I forgot to read it before hitting send.

I wll tri nott to lit itt hoppen againn.

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Post#7 » Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:54 pm

Bilbo recovered from having the ring while gollum did not. Since Bilbo was able to get over it (rom not haveing it that long), he went back to a normal* way of life.
-I do not know how it will all end... I fear that it will go ill for us.


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Post#8 » Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:42 pm

Azadhel, there are more errors. In the Council of ELrond, as you all remember, Elrond said that the foundations of Barad-dur
were made with the ring, and while it survives they endure.
or something like that, and in the tale of years in the appendices it says that Barad-dur started getting built a hundred years before the Ring was made, and it was finished the year it was forged. How? (I'm sure even Sauron couldn't build the foundations last.)

But guys, lord of the rings is 1137 pages long, and all th enarratives on Middle-earth much much much much much much much much longer. :read: so, come on, Tolkien's human as well, isn't he? I certainly couldn't make up that stuff at all, let alone do it without contradictions, and I'm sure it's the same for you.

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Post#9 » Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:21 am

or something like that, and in the tale of years in the appendices it says that Barad-dur started getting built a hundred years before the Ring was made, and it was finished the year it was forged. How? (I'm sure even Sauron couldn't build the foundations last.)

Sauron used to be the Necromancer. He can do pretty much everything.

Anyway, maybe it's only a mistake in the appendices then, instead of the story of LOTR itself. A minor inaccuracy.
Give up the Halfring, she-elf...

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Post#10 » Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:42 am

And eating raw fish and young Goblins surely doesn´t prolong life.

Ungoliant lived a loong life doing that. (Though it was young orcs and no fish) So why wouldn't it be the same for Gollum? Maybe it's the only good thing about the orcs and goblins. ;)

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