LOTR and men's minds...

Ungoliant
Posts: 993

LOTR and men's minds...

Post#1 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Why can men only show emotion in times of great stress?

'Cos women will think they're poofs if they do otherwise! I don't want a constantly weepy, oversensitive bloke around my neck! Gimme the strong, brash (or silent), burping, farting, drooling type anytime! They're more genuine. If you get one that reads, well it's a bonus. :D

To tell you the truth, I don't think that Tolkien gave a very accurate portrayal of men. Too many honourable & understanding males, fighting for the common good....but then it is fantasy... ;)

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PlasticSquirrel
Posts: 3577

LOTR and men's minds...

Post#2 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Illogical Captain, why should one show emotion if it is not imperative and unavoidable? *raises eyebrow* Your female emotions interest me. Fascinating.....
http://www.plasticsquirrel.co.uk for all your bizarre music and musings needs

swampfaye
Posts: 390

LOTR and men's minds...

Post#3 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

How could he not give an accurate portrayal of men unless he was your atypical man? I don't think Tolkien was all that atypical and find his views quite masculine (to the point where I can hardly stand it at times) and those views coming out in LOTR quite often.

Frodo = middle aged blue eyed cleft in chin tweed wearing pipe smoker
Tolkien = middle aged blue eyed cleft in chin tweed wearing pipe smoker

I think you can draw the inference from that...

Ungoliant
Posts: 993

LOTR and men's minds...

Post#4 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Yeah, that's only one - out of probably zillions of male characters in LotR. Besides, Tolkien always said that he wanted to be a hobbit....so it's not surprising that he gave Frodo his physical attributes.

Most of the male characters in there were idealised - the honourable, the wise, the terrible etc. Probably the most balanced and realistic portrait painted was Boromir - the rest were just the typical 'good' vs. 'evil' attributes of men in general. But then it a fantasy novel, so I wouldn't expect to find any answers to what makes the modern man tick in there. Probably what made Tolkien tick, yes - but not men.

Eryan
Posts: 845

LOTR and men's minds...

Post#5 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Why men characters of Tolkien are as a rule idealised?...
A possible hint:
His men are to some degree similar to characters in the books of Arthur
Conan Doyle (Sherlock Holmes, Dr Watson and others - for instance Malone.
from "The Lost World").
Both Tolkien and Conan-Doyle were half-orphans: their fathers died when they
were very young. Both were reared by loving mothers with very strong personalities
and very romantic notions about perfect men which should be heroic, but also
gentle and... chaste.
My own father is very very similar - and he had a similar family story...

Huan
Posts: 68

LOTR and men's minds...

Post#6 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Wow this is fun!
Firstly if I ever wanted to learn anything about men/masculinity and women/feminitiy, its is HIGHLY unlikely that I would read Tolkien. There are several reasons they call it fantasy.

Secondly if I wanted to understand lmen/masculinity etc....I'm not sure if JRR Tolkien is a role model or had anything interesting to say on the topic.

I I may venture... the reason Tolkien has created monolithic idelistic male/boy figures is precisely becasue he knew nothing about women in the complete sense of complex creatures as opposed to being virgins/girls/Queens/mothers. Eryan's info about a strong mother relationship adds to this.

Tolkien has created BOY's - none of the characters actually become adults (although the debate is open for Frodo). This may have to do with his youth, his social background or simply the male literary universtiy environment.

Tolkien is definitely not a good bedside book on male psychology. If by chance you do use the book to that effect - you're in for a rough ride. Then of course it depends on what age you are and what you are looking for. But ne supposes that if the question is about male psychology, the person asking the question is beyond adolescent.


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TomBombadillo
Posts: 2746

LOTR and men's minds...

Post#7 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Great topic! :D

Tolkien has created BOY's - none of the characters actually become adults (although the debate is open for Frodo).


What about Aragorn then? Or Boromir? Or Gandalf??? Are they boys too? But I suppose you're referring to the hobbits, right? ;)

I am totally with Ungoliant here. Men are great, just as long they stay men. :D Women don't want poofs, as Golly said. A guy, solid as a rock, that's what women want. But not the macho kinda type. Men that are able to show their emotions do great as well, but not in public, please! Keep those emotions private, thank you! :)

But it's still fantasy... :D
Denial is not a river in Africa.

Eryan
Posts: 845

LOTR and men's minds...

Post#8 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

I think that Tolkien created some remarkable men (non-boy) characters.
In my eyes Aragorn decidedly is a man, with much self-control.
As for what the women desire: many women, especially strong women of the Amazon type happen to fell madly in love with gentle nice Faramirs. Come to the Faramir thread in this Forum and see how many ladies claim him to be a perfect man!!!

Boring
Posts: 289

LOTR and men's minds...

Post#9 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

I think the cave troll from the movie is typicall Men-ish :)
lot off muscles small brains etc... :D

swampfaye
Posts: 390

LOTR and men's minds...

Post#10 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am


As for what the women desire: many women, especially strong women of the Amazon type happen to fell madly in love with gentle nice Faramirs. Come to the Faramir thread in this Forum and see how many ladies claim him to be a perfect man!!!


Me included :)

But I find that (and don't crucify me for this) that Tolkien's style in LOTR appeals mostly to men because they can relate to it most...

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