Power of the Rings of Power

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bugyfeanor
Posts: 668

Power of the Rings of Power

Post#11 » Thu Sep 02, 2004 6:55 pm

I think the rings had different powers, somehow related to their destined masters: the slowing of time for the Elves, the hoarding of jewels and gems for the Dwarves, power for Men, total domination for Sauron (or any other Dark Lord). I guess the Eldar were present in both worlds, material and spiritual, at any moment, so they could not be truly invisible in either one! Of course, they needed not be invisible; they were happy with the things as they were.

*retiring in a dark corner and waiting for Val, the master of all knowledge, to come up and clear this problem*

P.S.: This is odd, but I was writing for so long that Val actually said what really mattered, leaving me in a ackward position. Sorry if the topic was messed up! *bows and leaves*
Evil may yet be good to have been ... and yet remain evil. (Silmarillion)

loni
Posts: 1519

Power of the Rings of Power

Post#12 » Thu Sep 02, 2004 7:19 pm

True, th eelves are in both worlds, (like how Frodo saw Glorfindel when he was almost a wraith [I would get the quote, but I don't have my copy of TLOTR with me, because I'm at school at the moment]), but does that really mean that they coudln't be totally invisible in either? all the mortals are only in the material world, but they doesn't mean they cant be totally invisible in one, so I don't see why it can't be the same for hte Elves, even if they ARE completely different. i suppose this can be neither disproved or proven, so maybe it's just a mystery, and perhaps Tolkien didn't even think of it.......

But I do agree that the power of the rings of Power differ deending on the bearer (or wearer), depending on the wearer's intentions and race, and perhaps other factors as well.

Can Val help?

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grondmaster
Posts: 25451

Power of the Rings of Power

Post#13 » Fri Sep 03, 2004 4:07 pm

True, the elves are in both worlds, (like how Frodo saw Glorfindel when he was almost a wraith [I would get the quote, but I don't have my copy of TLOTR with me, because I'm at school at the moment])
Here it is, from the last page of Book 1 of The Fellowship of the Ring just before Frodo falls from Asfaloth at the Ford of Bruinen:
With his last failing senses Frodo heard cries, and it seemed to him that he saw, beyond the Riders that hesitated on the shore, a shining figure of white light; and behind it ran small shadowy forms waving flames, that flared red in the grey mist that was falling over the world.
And later about five pages into Book 2 of the same volume, when Frodo was talking to Gandalf, having just awakened in Elrond's Last Homey House, Gandalf is speaking:
'... And here in Rivendell there live still some of his chief foes: the Elven-wise, lords of the Eldar from beyond the furthest seas. They do not fear the Ringwraiths, for those who have dwelt in the Blessed Realm live at once in both worlds, and against both the Seen and the Unseen they have great power.'

'I thought I saw a white figure that shone and did not grow dim like the others. Was that Glorfindel then?'

'Yes, you saw him for a moment as he is upon the other side: one of the mighty of the Firstborn. He is an Elf-lord of a house of princes. ...'
'Share and enjoy'

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valedhelgwath
Posts: 4233

Power of the Rings of Power

Post#14 » Sun Sep 05, 2004 2:28 am

But I do agree that the power of the rings of Power differ deending on the bearer (or wearer), depending on the wearer's intentions and race, and perhaps other factors as well.

Can Val help?


Because of the different effects the rings had on different races, I have always assumed the Seven dwarven rings were diferent to the nine human rings in their making. Thinking about it, however, this is perhaps not the case. It is more likely that there were 16 lesser rings of power, all very similar, but having different effects on Dwarves to Humans.

The three elven rings, obviously were different to the other 16 in that they alone were untouched by Sauron, even though they applied his "technology".

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floyd_n_milan
Posts: 551

Power of the Rings of Power

Post#15 » Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:58 am

I've just read the replies posted to Anduril and Sauron thread and I felt that I should be reading this thread again. So, after reading both the threads, I have another question (pah!!).

When we talk about someone like Galadriel of Sauron being much more powerful that someone like Frodo, what kind of power are we exactly talking about? I don't want answers in words like, "They had magical powers". I want as deep explainations as possible. I think I should make it more clear, I mean the question, but I'll do that after I get some answers and if necessary.

P.S.
"You have not tried," she said. "Only thrice have you set the Ring upon your finger since you knew what you possessed. Do not try! It would destroy you. Did not Gandalf tell you that the rings give power according to the measure of each possessor? Before you could use that power you would need to become far stronger, and to train your will to the domination of others."


This is what Galdriel told Frodo. Now, how was Frodo exactly suppose to become stronger?

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Vee
Posts: 2711

Power of the Rings of Power

Post#16 » Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:19 am

I can't say much about the power of Galadriel - it isn't 'magic' as we understand magic, more of an affinity with the world she is part of. Elves are long lived and bound within the world, therefore they are more in tune with the world, anything growing and living..... she was one of the oldest elves, and has seen the light of the Trees. Her hair shines with that light. I know she has the Mirror which Frodo looked into and she gave him the phial which shone with the light of Earendil's star.

Galadriel herself said that what others see as elf-magic is not magic to the elves...

For this is what your folk would call magic, I believe; though I do not understand clearly what they mean; and they seem also to use the same word of the deceits of the Enemy. But this, if you will, is the magic of Galadriel.


She was also able to perceive the Dark Lord and know his mind , or all of his mind that concerns the Elves.

Is this magic. It seems so to us but what the full explanation is of it, I don't know. Perhaps they are so in tune with the world they can work with it, with nature and with all the forces present. Elves also had greater control over their bodies and it is indicated that they could use 'telepathy' for want of a better word. But when the Ring was destroyed the three elven Rings lost their power to hold back time. From The Letters of JRRT..

when the One goes, the last defenders of High-elven lore and beauty are shorn of power to hold back time, and depart


Also, the Ring exerts power over the wearer's mind...... how strong was Frodo's mind compared to Galadriel and Gandalf. She has lived for many ages, learned many things and Gandalf is a Maia. Compared to their strength of mind, Frodo's must appear quite simple - untried and untrained.

I don't think Frodo would ever have become strong enough to wield the Ring.

I m sure there is much more to be said on tis subject and no doubt someone will add to what I have said, perhaps with a clearer explanation.

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floyd_n_milan
Posts: 551

Power of the Rings of Power

Post#17 » Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:01 am

I wonder if the rings actually had any "practical" powers. I mean, say, powers that might be useful in war or something. It seems to me, that JRRT gives much importance to war. Anyways, I can't really find any real description regarding the actual powers of any of the characters in LOTR. All I can remember is the incident in the Hobbit with the wargs, where Gandalf is able to manupulate fire. I wonder if it's because of the third Elven ring (Narya, was it?). I'm not exactly sure when Gandalf got that ring from Cirdan and whether he was wearing it at that time. (Mind you, all I've read is Hobbit, LOTR and PT Forums)

Anyways, I wonder what kind of power the one ring would exactly give in wars or something.

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virumor
Posts: 3567

Power of the Rings of Power

Post#18 » Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:53 pm

I wonder if the rings actually had any "practical" powers. I mean, say, powers that might be useful in war or something. It seems to me, that JRRT gives much importance to war.

The Three were NOT meant for war.

Quote from FOTR, chapter Council of Elrond :

%%%The Elves returned no answer. `Did you not hear me, Glóin?' said Elrond. `The Three were not made by Sauron, nor did he ever touch them. But of them it is not permitted to speak. So much only in this hour of doubt I may now say. They are not idle. But they were not made as weapons of war or conquest: that is not their power. Those who made them did not desire strength or domination or hoarded wealth, but understanding, making, and healing, to preserve all things unstained. These things the Elves of Middle-earth have in some measure gained, though with sorrow. But all that has been wrought by those who wield the Three will turn to their undoing, and their minds and hearts will become revealed to Sauron, if he regains the One. It would be better if the Three had never been. That is his purpose.' %%%

Gandalf recieved his Ring as soon as he stepped foot on Middle-Earth, in the year 1000 of the Third Age. He was the last of the Istari to arrive, and Círdan gave Narya to Gandalf because he could foresee Gandalf would need it in his quest. In UT, it is written Gandalf used Narya to give spirit/courage to people.

I don't think Gandalf uses Narya to do that fireworks trick on the Wargs, that's just simple magic, imo. After all, Gandalf is supposed to be a Wizard. Narya is just a handy requisite he recieved from Narya, which would at times make his task in Middle-Earth simpler.
Give up the Halfring, she-elf...

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grondmaster
Posts: 25451

Power of the Rings of Power

Post#19 » Mon Sep 20, 2004 5:32 pm

Anyways, I wonder what kind of power the one ring would exactly give in wars or something.
Boromir thought it would give him the power of Command.
What could not a warrior do in this hour, a great leader? ..... The Ring would give me power of Commanf. How I would drive the hosts of Mordor, and all men would flock to my banner!'

... while his talk dwelt on walls and weapons, and mustering of men; and he drew plans for great alliances and glorious victories to be; and he cast down Mordor, and became himself a mighty king, benevolent and wise. - FotR, Book II, Chapter 10
Even Sam had these visions of grandeur.
Wild fantasies arose in his mind; and he saw Samwise the Strong, Hero of the Age, striding with a flaming sword across the darkened land, and armies flocking to his call as he marched to the overthrow of Barad-dur. And then all the clouds rolled away, and the white sun shown, and at his command the vale of Gorgoroth became a garden of flowers and trees and brought forth fruit. - RotK, Book VI, Chapter 1
And while Boromir acted on this vision by trying to take the Ring; Sam, who already had it in his possession (albit on the chain) saw the folly, and just like Galadriel, decided to forgo that future, to diminish, and (eventually) go into the West.
'Share and enjoy'

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Amarië
Posts: 2785

Power of the Rings of Power

Post#20 » Tue Sep 21, 2004 5:36 am

True, but Boromirs heart and upbringing told him to protect his people and land, Sams heart and upbringing told him to serve his master. You would think that after spending 500 years or so with Gollum, the Ring would have learned that hobbits didn't seek honour and grandure in battle, and rather try a different approach. But it was created by Sauron and he didn't have hobbits in mind, neither would he be able to understand their simple, but pure and true hearts.
"Don't complain under the stars
about the lack of bright spots in you life."
Henrik Wergeland, Norwegian writer

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