FOTR re-read

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rhapsody
Posts: 599

FOTR re-read

Post#1 » Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:00 am

Currently I am reading Fellowship of the ring again. And I have some observations or things I wonder about.

Tolkien wrote:
They went out into the hall. Bilbo chose his favourite stick from the stand; then he whistled. Three dwarves came out of different rooms where they had been busy.
'Is everything ready?' asked Bilbo. 'Everything packed and labelled?'
'Everything,' they answered.
'Well, let's start then!' He stepped out of the front-door.


Some how I never noticed these 3 dwarves. Any thoughts on who they might be?? Just take a guess. Maybe Tolkien explains it in one of his letters, I am not sure.

I find this one intriguing. Frodo and Gandalf talk about which version about how Bilbo got the ring he had told to them both. The true version. At least they both believe it.

'What do you know already?'
'Only what Bilbo told me. I have heard his story: how he found it, and how he used it: on his journey, I mean.'
'Which story, I wonder,' said Gandalf.
'Oh, not what he told the dwarves and put in his book,' said Frodo. 'He told me the true story soon after I came to live here. He said you had pestered him till he told you, so I had better know too. "No secrets between us, Frodo," he said; "but they are not to go any further. It's mine anyway."'


So, now I am wondering... what did we read in 'The Hobbit' actually. The story Bilbo wrote down in his book (not the true version)?

Oh I forgot how much I loved Gandalf. If it was not only by this
line:
He went on with his tea. The knock was repeated, much louder, but he took no notice. Suddenly the wizard's head appeared at the window.
'If you don't let me in, Frodo, I shall blow your door right down your hole and out through the hill,' he said.
:D

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floyd_n_milan
Posts: 551

FOTR re-read

Post#2 » Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:28 am

Ooii Rhaps, thanks for opening this thread. You saved me some work ;)


So, now I am wondering... what did we read in 'The Hobbit' actually. The story Bilbo wrote down in his book (not the true version)?


As far as I know, the Hobbit we read is the actual story that happens. Tolkien I suppose changed the original one in which Gollum shows him the way out and that's the story he told to the Dwarves. There's a mention at the start of LOTR about all this. Did you skip it or what?

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terrijayne
Posts: 432

FOTR re-read

Post#3 » Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:33 am

I agree with Floyd about the Hobbit being the real story of how Bilbo found the ring. If you remember in the Hobbit, Bilbo never confessed to the dwarves how he was able to approach the spiders in Mirkwood, or sneak around the halls of the elven king or approach Smaug without getting toasted. He keeps his magic ring as his little secret. The dwarves just think he is an excellent little burgler, although I think Thorin knew he was up to something. When Biblo wrote his book, its my opinion that he never mentioned his magic ring.

Glad you are re-reading the FOTR. I try to re-read the Hobbit and LOTR series at least once every 3 years or so. I always seem to find something new that I missed (or forgotten); or pieces of the puzzle fit a little better as I understand more about Tolkiens work. Happy reading!

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floyd_n_milan
Posts: 551

FOTR re-read

Post#4 » Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:00 am

I remember reading this somewhere:

JRRT had written the original Hobbit, in which the story about the finding of the ring was the one that Bilbo told to the Dwarves. It said that Gollum gave the ring to Bilbo and showed him the way out of the caves when Bilbo won the riddle game. However, when writing LOTR, Tolkien got in trouble over this, because it contradicted with the description of the ring's power to induce lust in the bearer's mind. So Tolkien changed it around and rewrote the chapter. In this rewritten edition, he included the confession that Bilbo later made to Gandalf about the finding of the ring.

Tolkien also says that when Frodo wrote the books from Bilbo's notes. He was unwilling to change Bilbo's original text so some copies of the original text still remain.

Correct me if I'm wrong. There are many people more qualified here to talk about this.

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floyd_n_milan
Posts: 551

FOTR re-read

Post#5 » Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:11 am


Tolkien wrote:
They went out into the hall. Bilbo chose his favourite stick from the stand; then he whistled. Three dwarves came out of different rooms where they had been busy.
'Is everything ready?' asked Bilbo. 'Everything packed and labelled?'
'Everything,' they answered.
'Well, let's start then!' He stepped out of the front-door.

Some how I never noticed these 3 dwarves. Any thoughts on who they might be?? Just take a guess. Maybe Tolkien explains it in one of his letters, I am not sure.


I was wondering the same actually!

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virumor
Posts: 3567

FOTR re-read

Post#6 » Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:11 am

So, now I am wondering... what did we read in 'The Hobbit' actually. The story Bilbo wrote down in his book (not the true version)?

In Bilbo's book, he lied on how he took the Ring from Gollum. Frodo later corrected it. That book was known as the Red Book of Westmarch.

I think it is rather impossible to miss those dwarves, especially since Gandalf arrives in Hobbiton with Dwarves, with Dwarfish fireworks. Those Dwarves come from Erebor, so it is logical that Bilbo later on leaves the Shire along with them, they both have to travel east : Bilbo to RIvendell, the Dwarves back to Erebor.
Give up the Halfring, she-elf...

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grondmaster
Posts: 25451

FOTR re-read

Post#7 » Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:21 pm

Virumor has the correct answer to the two questions.

We can find in the Prologue to LotR three pages into Part 4 'Of the finding of the Ring', the two accounts of its finding and how they appeared in print, or at least in the diferent editions of the Red Book of Westmarch.

A few of them (Dwarves) remained in Bag End. - from fifth page of Chapter 1, Book I, FotR, 'A Long-Expected Party'
'Share and enjoy'

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laurelindhe ilmarin
Posts: 1314

FOTR re-read

Post#8 » Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:14 pm

I agree with you, Turin. Except that, correct me if I'm wrong, the Red Book of Westmarch would contain both The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings, as "There and Back Again" and "The Lord of the Rings", respectively. Or am I thinking of something else? My brain is fried from...well, fried from things in the past, so things elude me...anyway, I too think of it in terms of that JRRT found the Red Book and translated it to the text that it is now. Or at least that is what my heart wants to believe.:)

I love Gandalf for the same reason you do Rhapsody-his "quick to anger, but just as quick to laughter" personality and his strength of will...also it is amazing how much detail you pick up each time you reread FOTR that you may not have remembered from last time.

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Túrin Turambar
Posts: 614

FOTR re-read

Post#9 » Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:54 pm

Very good question, it never came to my mind until you brought it up. Even though i'm pretty sure the way it was written, was the way that it happened... Although, I like to think of "The Hobbit" actually being the "Red Book of Westmarch" and the way that we read it, was not the true story. :)

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Túrin Turambar
Posts: 614

FOTR re-read

Post#10 » Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:58 pm

ya L. i believe you are right, about "Red Book of Westmarch" actually consisting of The HObbit, and LOTR; although i'm not 100% positive, my brain eludes me also, but i won't divulge into detail why :smoke: :smoke: :smoke:

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