The final battle

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valedhelgwath
Posts: 4233

The final battle

Post#1 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

If the ring had not been destroyed, the good guys would have got their butts kicked!

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grondmaster
Posts: 25451

The final battle

Post#2 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Valedhelgwath has got that right! All that would have remained of them would have been a bunch of greasy blood stains and the people of Middle-earth could have looked forward to a millennium of slavery. :verysad:
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PlasticSquirrel
Posts: 3577

The final battle

Post#3 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Yeah, they were all but done in anyway, same as if Vader hadn't thrown the Emperor into that big hole.
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DangerMouse
Posts: 39

The final battle

Post#4 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Yup. They would have been slaughtered, although I'd like to think that the eagles would have arrived in the nick of time to carry off Gandalf, Aragorn (maybe?) and a couple of other important leaders. Dunno what good that would do though.

Plastic - disagree with the Vader comment. He only killed the Emperor. Wedge & Lando & co. were well on their way into the DS's reactor core, so Vader, Luke & Emperor would have just been blown to bits irregardless.

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PlasticSquirrel
Posts: 3577

The final battle

Post#5 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

But if the Emperor had manged to leg it a bit quicker, then he could have still held control over the Imperial Navy with the force and the Rebels would have been knackered. But then again, his overconfidence was his weakness....
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Eryan
Posts: 845

The final battle

Post#6 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Well, I often thought that to have to live through a millenium of slavery, and to preserve some seeds of all that was noble and beautiful in the older times... that would make a test ten thousands times more grim than passing the Path of the Dead, or Frodo's journey to Mordor...

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grondmaster
Posts: 25451

The final battle

Post#7 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Is that what made PJ's Elrond so down against mankind; that they could die and each individual wouldn't have to endure the whole thousand years like each of the Elves would, if Gandalf's and Frodo's quest failed? :disturbed:
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Allyssa
Posts: 1657

The final battle

Post#8 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Well, I often thought that to have to live through a millenium of slavery, and to preserve some seeds of all that was noble and beautiful in the older times... that would make a test ten thousands times more grim than passing the Path of the Dead, or Frodo's journey to Mordor...


But I thought elves were reincarnated in Valinor? Like Glorfindel.
"May the Angels Guide"

Eryan
Posts: 845

The final battle

Post#9 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Yes, elves are reincarnated in Valinor, but after a long dull waiting in the Halls of Mandos. Finally, even slavery might be preferable to that silent sad prison-like place where you do not have your body and (presumably) have no company, except perhaps Nienna, coming to weep over you from time to time! These poor slain elves waiting in the Halls of Mandos must really feel like neurology patients with the "shut-in" syndrome!
As for humans, they are quite willing to die. The heroes of both LOTR and SIlm are often and repeatedly told to prefer death to captivity (they have "the hardihood to die free, to use the words of Denethor).
This is indeed an easy way out of the mess! nn[Edited on 21/5/2002 by Eryan]

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Allyssa
Posts: 1657

The final battle

Post#10 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Yes, the Halls of Mandos do sound like a pretty mournful and depressing place. The duration of the stay depends on the deeds done in life though - it is a kind of purgatory is it not? (I am not a catholic, so I am not certain what Tolkien modelled them on, if anything).

An elf like Feanor would likely spen a looooong time there, if not eternity. It is difficult imagining him ever repenting!

But say, for example, if Elrond was killed. I think his stay would be relatively short, since he does not appear to have committed any sins that we know of or can imagine! Except maybe pride (?).

I am not sure that the elves are necessarily separated from each other. I seem to recall someone learning from someone while in the Halls of Mandos, but I cant recall the exact reference of that.

"...Finwe grieved when the Teleri came not, and yet more when he learned that Elwe was forsaken and knew that he should not see him again, unless it were in the Halls of Mandos..." - Of Eldamar and the Princes of the Eldallie


More or less implies some sort of community? They seem to be able to at least see each other. I wonder how they recognised each other if they no longer had their bodies?:)

"May the Angels Guide"

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