Dwarves in Lord of the Rings

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Durin
Posts: 138

Dwarves in Lord of the Rings

Post#1 » Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:42 pm

It seems in the Movie, Lord of the Rings, the Dwarves are Hardly mention, save Gimli. Many people say that, "Hey, why did the dwarves just sit on their butts and just dig for Gold, while the Darkness and Shadow Grew?". Yet, I do not know why Peter Jackson did not include them, because they fended off the Shadow from coming into the Lonely Mountain, or passing its borders. They also were tempted to join the Dark Lord's Forces, and in return, have the Mines of Moria, forever. I would be rather skeptical of this, saying there is no apparent reason the Dark Lord would let the Dwarves live and not crush such a refuge for the Free People's. Either way, The Dwarves do play quite a role in the War of the Ring. And I ABSOLUTELY HATE that the Movie Completely skipped over Glorfindel and Gloin. First of all, it was not Arwen who called the Flood, and yet it was Glorfindel who plead for Elrond to Call up the River. And Elrond did not make those horses you see come out of the River, it was Gandalf. Anyway, that is a whole different story.

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Beren
Posts: 276

Dwarves in Lord of the Rings

Post#2 » Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:17 am

The whole thing with the dwarves fending off Sauron at the Lonely Mountain is mentioned, in the book, at the council of Elrond. It seems that, in the movie, they wanted to shorten the council of Elrond and make it more to-the-point. As a result, the mention of the dwarves was eliminated. Because of this, if the dwarves came into the story later, it would have seemed like it came out of the blue. And, in the movie, Elrond explained it away: "The Dwarves? They toil away in their mountains, seeking riches. They care nothing for the troubles of others."

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Durin
Posts: 138

Dwarves in Lord of the Rings

Post#3 » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:47 pm

Although I respect the Elves very much, I do not see why they abandon Middle Earth and its ways. I see that they wish to escape evil and live in a world that is only Merry and Good. However, that is the only problem with their race. The world will never be Good, the Shadow will never truly be abolished. Though the Elves have their Grey Haven, and their own World beyond the Sea, I do not see their reason for Abandoning the Free People's of Middle Earth. If The Elves would have come over the Sea in aid to Men and Dwarves, the Battle against the Dark Lord could have been one, which much less Losses. If Haldir had not come from Loth-Lorien to the aid of Helm's Deep, it may have well have been taken over, well before the Morning Light. Just a Small Batallion of Elves could save a Fortress, think of what a Legion could do? Fully equiped with Elven Armor? Well, I just sometimes do not see why Elves think the way they do, however I am not an Elf. The thing that touches me the most in the book is when in the Appendix of the 50th Edition it says "Then Legolas built a Grey Ship in Ithilien and sailed down Anduin and so over the Sea.; and with him, it is said, went Gimli the Dwarf. And when the ship passed an end was come in Middle-earth of the Fellowship of the RIng. To me that is the PERFECT Ending to a PERFECT book. It kind of makes me feel a bit sad inside, that such a Great Book, has ended. I am also very grieved I could not have seen or talked to J.R.R. Tolkien in Person, nor been alive in his Era.

Peace to all and Goodwill to men, and even Elves and Dwarves,

Durin

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Gandalfs Beard
Posts: 2311

Dwarves in Lord of the Rings

Post#4 » Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:44 am

Well Durin, I think "merry and good" is a better description of the Hobbits :lol: . The Elves are the Vulcans of Middle-Earth, and Reason is their way. The Elves were leaving Middle Earth because they knew Magic was fading and that they were coming to the end of the Third Age. They also knew that the next age would be the Age of Man. They had done their work, which was to shepherd mankind through it's infancy and childhood until they (we) could look after ourselves. Middle-Earth was intended to be an alternate past to our current present. I have always been in some ways as disappointed as you that this was so. That is why the ending of LOTR is so bitter-sweet. In a way though, just as Arthurian legend promises the return of Arthur and Christianity the return of Christ, some of us hold out hope that the future holds a return of Magic to the World. If I hold out any musings on what possibilities await on predicted dates such as 2012, it is this; that Magic will indeed return and that the Archaic Revival will meet the future in the Dawning of a true New Age. And maybe, just maybe the return of the Elves. :D

Gandalfs Beard

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Durin
Posts: 138

Dwarves in Lord of the Rings

Post#5 » Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:14 am

The Elves are the Vulcans of Middle-Earth,
is quite and odd way to describe the Elves. Now, I wonder why Tolkien has not described how the Dwarves had their fate on Middle Earth, for I have always been curious who would rule Middle Earth, whether it be Hobbits, Men, or Dwarves, or even Elves, who would come back in a New Age, with an un-explicable amount of Magic. If I am missing something, please tell me, because I have read all of the Appendices of Middle Earth many-a-time!

Thanks!

Durin

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Gandalfs Beard
Posts: 2311

Dwarves in Lord of the Rings

Post#6 » Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:57 pm

I'm not sure about Dwarves (I think they probably just mingled with humans). But the Hobbits represented the British country folk, though he also intended them to be the "little people" of British legend. It would probably be more accurate to say the Vulcans of Star Trek fame are modelled on the Elves, but they both represent the same principles of Reason and Reverence for Life and Peace. As to the future all we really have is speculation. When we have foreknowledge of an event it gives us a chance to make choices that can change the future; so Prophesies are never certain, only likely possibilities. As a side note; Elves are often considered to possess the ability to see all probabilities, all possible outcomes as illustrated nicely in Peter Jackson's films.

Gandalfs Beard

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Forth Eorlingas
Posts: 8

Dwarves in Lord of the Rings

Post#7 » Mon May 25, 2009 5:31 am

It is referenced in the ROTK EE briefly when Legolas says "I think the Dwarves have battles in their own lands" or something like that - in other words, this could refer to Erebor and all that.

The Dwarves do contribute to the story because a dwarf joins the fellowship. The elves are only shown much more because of Arwen's relevance and because they encounter Galadriel and Elrond on the journey.

anaclangon
Posts: 11

Dwarves in Lord of the Rings

Post#8 » Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:01 am

Gimli says to Legolas....give me a legion of Dwarves, well armed and filthy. to which Legolas replies...I think that war shall come to them.

Dwarves do play a huge role the history of Middle Earth, all the way through..some for good and some for not. Remember, like the Humans they were exploited by Sauron and the Rings of Power during the Second Age, while the Rings drove the Humans to lust for power over one another, it incited unreasonable greed in the dwarves. Although it does not say this in the "Hobbit", in the one of the Lost tales books, Its fairly clear that Thorin is driven by the desire to retake Erebor with force, and that Thorin was driven for revenge for both his kin and the stolen treasure. My understanding of that was that Tolkien was ambivilant as to what was more important to Thorin, Implying the hold of the ring. Given that context, I think Elronds comment in the Fellowship Movie makes more sense. Also, clearly they were at the council of Elrond, so he felt that they had a role to play in saving middle earth. He had just as much disdain for men..."men are weak.."

Shane333
Posts: 27

Dwarves in Lord of the Rings

Post#9 » Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:29 pm

If I recall correctly from my readings years ago, at the time that Sauron assailed Minas Tirith, he also sent forces to assail the remaining elven strongholds (Rivendell and Lothlorien) as well as the dwarves, both to keep them from uniting against him and just in case one of them was concealing the One Ring from him.

I was not as happy with how Jackson portrayed Gimli. Gimli was portrayed as slovenly and often clueless though loveable enough. He was made the comedy relief. In a way, he reminds me of how men are often portrayed in sitcoms (consider Everyone loves Raymond).

In the books, on the other hand, dwarves were much more refined. Remember at the unexpected party how Thorin and the others were accompolished musicians, playing instruments as refined and elegant as the harp. They were also somewhat formal and refined in their discourse, especially when addressing new people...though that refinement would slip in moments of greed or anger.

In the books dwarves were very much down to business, whether it was working at crafts, playing an instrument, or engaging in warfare. Their weekness was simply their propensity to be greedy. Greed brought out the worst in them, whether it involved a Silmaril or Smaug's hoard.

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Gandalfs Beard
Posts: 2311

Dwarves in Lord of the Rings

Post#10 » Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:47 pm

I didn't see Jackson's Gimli as strictly comic relief. It seemed to me, more that his [i:128f7d4i][b:128f7d4i]relationship[/b:128f7d4i][/i:128f7d4i] with Legolas was played as comic relief. I thought Gimli did seem at times in the films like a "down to business" type of personality, yet fun to be around at parties ;) .

[b:128f7d4i]GB[/b:128f7d4i]

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