Saruman

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Durin
Posts: 138

Saruman

Post#1 » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:19 pm

Well, today I would like to just criticize alot of people. I know how everyone seems to try to act so educated and call Saruman, Saruman the White, and everyone around him goes "Oh yes, yes, how right you are, my friend" However, they are all wrong. The Proper Name for Saruman is "Saruman of Many Colors" Just to clarify this, because in this Forum, it has agitated me to see people calling him Saruman the White. Haha, Thanks!

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Gandalfs Beard
Posts: 2311

Saruman

Post#2 » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:14 pm

If I recall my physics correctly, White is a combination of all colours of light, i.e. Many Colours. :P :roll:

Gandalfs Beard

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Gandalfs Beard
Posts: 2311

Saruman

Post#3 » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:38 pm

By the way you spelled Saruman wrong in the thread title.

Also Saruman was referred to as Curunir (man of skills or man of craft i.e. Saruman) and also Curunir Lan (Saruman the White)--both Quenya, Curumo--Sindarin, and Sharkey (in Orcish Sharku). And he was indeed titled Saruman the White. He later changed it to Saruman of Many Colours and his robes to match. :D

Gandalfs Beard

P.S. Saruman also, in all his humility, called himself Saruman Ring Maker.

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Show
Posts: 138

Saruman

Post#4 » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:49 am

Gandalf's Beard is right, he was Sauraman the White during the events of The Hobbit. It wasn't until his confrontation with Gandalf that he showed his true color, or colors as the story goes.
I think this was what lead to Gandalfs line about he who breaks a thing to see what it's made of has left the path of wisedom.
Or as Douglas Adams put it, if you take apart a cat to see how it works, the first you have is a non-working cat.

Otto's World
Posts: 138

Saruman

Post#5 » Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:19 am

Oh my, heavens to Betsy, no!! "We"--or at least a lot of us--on the Hobbit Forum are causing high blood pressure issues for one of our own. What awesome power! What a daunting responsibility! A heavy burden is laid upon our heads...to look out for the health and happiness of those who read but do not post. Durin, you have only posted twice. Speak more, please :D .

Seriously, though, I have been wondering for a long time why so few people participate sometimes, and I have a sneaking fear about what the reason may be. Please tell me whether I am on the right track or I am just being paranoid. I really doubt that the feisty agitation is caused by Saruman errors, and I picked up on these phrases:

I would like to just criticize alot of people.
everyone seems to try to act so educated
and everyone around him goes "Oh yes, yes, how right you are, my friend"


Do you feel hesitant to step in and speak because the "air space" here seems clogged with the conversaton of snobby or uppity people? People who try to be too big for their britches? People whose egos make a big splash and give the whole place a Masterpiece Theater drawing room flavor so that you fear that you can't come in and join the party unless you put on a tux--or at least a tie--and smoke a cigarette screwed into one of those long black cigarette holder thingies? And not only that, but these PBS-like personages creating this atmosphere are POSERS who don't even know what they are talking about half of the time. ....Saruman the White.....huh. :evil:

I wonder because, in classroom contexts, these discussion groups can fall flat if some participants feel "intimidated" by other participants' posts. The shy scholars keep away because they don't want to appear ignorant in front of the professor and they fear that the chattier ones have raised the expectation bar for everyone else. I wonder if this happens in writing classes, you know, where a viscious vibe gets going and people start chewing up everyone's papers like a pool of pirahnas (sp?). I don't think this is happening here because I think people are very friendly and welcoming. But it could be feeling "snooty" and unwelcoming for reasons nobody intended.

Is this going on? And if so, how can we remedy the situation?

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Show
Posts: 138

Saruman

Post#6 » Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:02 pm

If it happens, I'm sorry, but I don't know how to fix it.

What I have found nice is that most people who have read the Hobbit and anxiously await the movie, also have seen and read LotR. Reading LotR alone takes a serious commitment, as it is not an easy read. Enjoying the movie was easy, the book was a harder to get through.

What I have found is that those who can and have read these works, and what's more wish to discuss them, often to great length. Well, these are the sort of people who are more often willing and able to carry on constructive debate.
You can ask Gandalf's Beard about how an easier read story (Chronicles of Narnia) could make for a much more one sided oppresive forum.
So please Durin, comment on throughout the forum. The site would die without people disagreeing. How many posts could we all make if everyone agreed upon everything?

What I think we do all need to do is explain our thoughts. It's easy for people who disliked Jackson's LotR to simply say "IT SUCKED!". But it takes much more effort to explain why. It's our reasonings and feelings that keep me checking this sight for updates and keeps me asking the occasional loaded question.

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Gandalfs Beard
Posts: 2311

Saruman

Post#7 » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:32 pm

I, for one, definitely welcome different opinions. It helps me learn and formulate more cogent analyses of my own. And I also know what it feels like to be a bit overwhelmed by the amount of knowledge others might possess.

I must admit, that on some forum threads I feel disadvantaged. :oops: I have read some of the key works of Tolkien and some bios, but stuff like the Silmarillion I hadn't read in anumber of years. I wanted to post though because I had a lot of thoughts and ideas more or less related to Tolkien. So first I tried to stick with topics on which I was on surer ground or subjective topics. Then I dug up some battered copies of my books or went to the library. I also found google an excellent aid at refreshing my memory and preventing me from making outrageous comments or mistakes. Do I still falter? Of course. And when I read some of Beren's posts I still feel like I lack the knowledge to respond adequately.

In any case, one shouldn't feel too bad about occasional mistakes. How else can we learn except by expressing that we do not know, and therefore we are receptive to new (or old) information (long forgotten). :D

Gandalfs Beard

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Durin
Posts: 138

Saruman

Post#8 » Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:01 pm

Well here is a Quote right from the Book, "Lord of the Rings". This is from the Fellowship of the Ring, or Part 1, Book 2, Council of Elrond.'"Yes, I have come," I said (Gandalf). " I have come for your aid, Saruman the White." And that title seemed to anger him.

"Have you indeed Gandalf the Grey!" he scoffed.' Well, now I have skipped to a section, not to far from this, maybe Paragraph or so. "' For I am Saruman the Wise, Saruman Ring-maker, Saruman of Many Colors!'

'I looked then and saw that his robes, which has seemed white, were not so, but were woven of all colours, and if he moved they shimmered and changed hue so that the eye was bewildered. "I liked white better" Gandalf Said.

"White!" he sneered. "It serves as a beginning. White cloth may be dyed. The white Page can be overwritten; and the white light can be broken."

Well, that is just a small part of this Chapter. Thanks! Feel free to discuss!

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Gandalfs Beard
Posts: 2311

Saruman

Post#9 » Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:16 pm

Indeed Durin :D . I think Show's point regarding the non-working cat was an apt analogy. White [u:2s5vvflb]is[/u:2s5vvflb] many colours in one (monism again Otto's World). Saruman had broken the White Light. Shattered it into many pieces to see what it was made of. Unfortunately for him he had no idea how to put it back together again (like Humpty Dumpty :lol: ). It's not that it's so wrong to find out what makes something tick; but Saruman didn't really want to put things back together again. He didn't understand that the Whole is more than the sum of it's parts--so he fell prey to the Mechanical Mind of Sauron. Who was more interested in Shattering things so he could control them in a mechanistic manner.

[b:2s5vvflb]Gandalfs Beard[/b:2s5vvflb]

P.S. Thanks for the Quote.

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Durin
Posts: 138

Saruman

Post#10 » Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:24 pm

This is very off topic but, I think that this website, being of the Hobbit and all, should add Moon Runes, and such other Elven and Dwarven Tongues. For example, we cannot use Gandalf's Signature Rune, which would be perfect for Signatures. Anyway, I have almost no Idea how Gandalf and the Rohhirim took on 100's of thousands of Uruk-Hai. This makes no sense to me, saying how almost all of the Uruks were Pike-Men. The only possible way is, of course, Isatari Light, which is why Gandalf told Aragorn to look for the Morning Light. But yet, if Gandalf could Harness this much power, why then did he not unleash it on the Balrog. Please, I would love to have these questions answered. Thanks!

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