Why was Dior immortal?

User avatar
Aulë
Posts: 1232

Why was Dior immortal?

Post#2 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Well he was not an elf I think.....but a man! I highly doubt that the offspring of two humans can be elven.....
Life's a piece of sheit, when you look at it
Life's a laugh and death's a joke, it's true
You'll see its all a show, people laughin as you go
Just remember that the last laugh is on you

Findekano
Posts: 73

Why was Dior immortal?

Post#3 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Dior was mortal. In the Decree of Manwe (HoME 5), he proclaims that any people with mortal blood would be mortal, with Earendil, Elwing and their son/s being the only ones who could choose alongst with Erlodn's children. Therfore, Dior, was mortal, as were Elured and Elurin (who problably died of starvation in Doriath, after being kidnapped and dumped in the middle of the forest by the servants of Celegorm, Tale of Years; HoME 11 ) thought they were pretty young when abaonded. (I think Elured was 5 and Elurin 3). And Galador, son of Imrazor and Mithrellas was also mortal.

User avatar
virumor
Posts: 3567

Why was Dior immortal?

Post#4 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Of course he was mortal - Beren was a Man, Lúthien was mortal when she returned to Beleriand.

That settles it, then.
Give up the Halfring, she-elf...

User avatar
Aulë
Posts: 1232

Why was Dior immortal?

Post#5 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Hey Findekano they were that young?!?

Damn cruel of the sons of Fëanor!!! Mandos never let them out!!!
And Virumor that is what I was trying to state.....she was mortal when they had the baby....Dior then becomes mortal ofcourse! But since he got a elven wife Elwing became Peredhil.....see?
Life's a piece of sheit, when you look at it

Life's a laugh and death's a joke, it's true

You'll see its all a show, people laughin as you go

Just remember that the last laugh is on you

Findekano
Posts: 73

Why was Dior immortal?

Post#6 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Sorry, my dates were quite off/wrong. I took the statement that the sons of Dior weren’t twins from the statement in the Beorian genealogies (HOME 11) that Elured (Here ‘Eldun’) and Elurin (Here ‘Elrun’) were born in the F.A 492 and 496 respectively and died in the sack of the re-made Doriath in 506, yet confusingly Tolkien gives Dior’s death as 511. It seems Tolkien revised this in the Tales of Years (HoME 11) to them being twins and being born in 1st age year 500, and their deaths in 506 ,thus making them 6. I’d just like to add it wasn’t the sons of Fëanor that killed them but the SERVANTS of Celegorm. Maedhros later searched for them, as the Quenta Silmarillion says.

User avatar
Allyssa
Posts: 1657

Why was Dior immortal?

Post#7 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Does anyone think that it is possible that Elured and Elurin were re-incarnated as Elladan and Elrohir?
"May the Angels Guide"

Findekano
Posts: 73

Why was Dior immortal?

Post#8 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

They were mortal and therfore they couldn't be re-incaranted. Also, Tolkien dropped the idea of Elven re-incarnation, instead saying they were given new bodies not born into their children a.l.a 'Laws and Customs'.

User avatar
Amarië
Posts: 2785

Why was Dior immortal?

Post#9 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Elrond becoming the father of his uncles? I don't know, could be of course. Would a reincarnated soul remember his/hers former life? And wouldn't Elrond and Celebrian get some form of vision of who their sons were?

I think that since Elured and Elurin where so unbelivably young and died so horribly, they wouldn't have developed enough love for ME, so they felt no need to return. But I'm sure their innocent souls would be let out of the halls of Mandos quite fast, especially if they had someone to look after them. Did their mother Nimloth die too? I bet they wouldn't want to leave her.

I think Elladan and Elrohir were new souls, and that twins simply run in the family. Elrond and Elros were twins too.
Seems that the urge to marry humans also run in the family. ;)
"Don't complain under the stars
about the lack of bright spots in you life."
Henrik Wergeland, Norwegian writer

User avatar
Amarië
Posts: 2785

Why was Dior immortal?

Post#10 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Oh a post came while I was typing! Ahh I forgot that Elwing wasn't counted among the elves untill she came to Valinor and chose to become one, silly me. Well the conclusion is still the same, no reincarnation. :)
"Don't complain under the stars

about the lack of bright spots in you life."

Henrik Wergeland, Norwegian writer

Return to “The Silmarillion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest