Expanded Silmarillion

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brego
Posts: 1275

Expanded Silmarillion

Post#1 » Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:49 pm

Firstly, this is my first post on this wonderful website; I look forward to reading all of your thoughts and mining through the many wonderful files. I have read the Silmarillion at least 20 times through & through plus carry it wherever I go and flick through it from time to time. I am rather obsessed with it and the many messages it contains regarding life on earth and the way we humans treat each other, or should do at least. I find that most chapters within the book could and should be expanded out into full novels of their own. What are you thoughts on this and who do you think should write them? I think a great idea would be to hold an international competition for writers; the novels could be judges by the Tolkien society, with the winner being published. Profits could be used to raise money for some form of charity. What are your thoughts?

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Gimli_man43
Posts: 553

Expanded Silmarillion

Post#2 » Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:06 pm


Let me be the first to welcome you to PT. Sadly, i have not read much of the Silmarillion, so i don't have any thoughts on your post.



Balrogs R Us
Posts: 539

Expanded Silmarillion

Post#3 » Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:56 pm


Welcome, Brego! You'll find that both myself and many other PT users will be able to relate to your passion for The Silmarillion. Always good to find another.



I absolutely agree that just about everything in the Silmarillion could be expanded into its own novel. However, I think the only person I'd feel comfortable reading this from would be The Professor himself. It would be more like reading well written fan fiction than another Tolkien story, just wouldn't be the same.



I could see some sort of award being given for outstanding fan fiction, maybe a novel comprised of short stories from Tolkien fans around the world could be made...



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Snape
Posts: 1294

Expanded Silmarillion

Post#4 » Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:13 am


Welcome Brego 



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galin
Posts: 1369

Expanded Silmarillion

Post#5 » Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:47 am


Welcome Brego



I don't think copyright concerns would allow anyone to write fuller versions of any chapters of Quenta Silmarillion, at least as far as being published anyway. Of course Tolkien did plan to write long prose versions of the Great Tales at least, and started these (again) after The Lord of the Rings was 'finished'.



Have you read The History of Middle-Earth series, especially the Silmarillion related volumes? They provide a measure of Silmarillion related writing that can't be found elsewhere, though much of it will also be a presentation of various versions over the years, as Tolkien's subcreated world grew and developed.



In theory I agree that various Silmarillion chapters could be longer and more fleshed out, and in one sense more of Middle-earth is always good. But that said, it might also be noted that early on Quenta Silmarillion was essentially meant to be a 'short prose' version, or a brief history. In commentary to the only completed Silmarillion JRRT ever made (in 1930), Christopher Tolkien notes...



 




'The title makes it very plain that while Q was written in a finished manner, my father saw it as a compendium, a 'brief history' that was 'drawn from' a much longer work; and this aspect remained an important element in his conception of 'The Silmarillion' properly so called.' CJRT, commentary to Qenta Noldorinwa (Q)




 



This idea might have arisen because after The Book of Lost Tales was (basically) put aside for poetry, the 'second phase' of the mythological narrative began again with a condensed synopsis.



But again I take your point: one would love more Silmarillion related stuff in any case. I would love more too, generally speaking -- from JRRT anyway, but of course one must accept the unfinished nature of the legendarium.



Incidentally, I believe some do not enjoy The History of Middle-Earth volumes because they help illustrate that The Silmarillion, though amazing even as it exists, is truly an unfinished work in progress.



Balrogs R Us
Posts: 539

Expanded Silmarillion

Post#6 » Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:55 pm


Could not agree more Galin. While reading HOME, you have to take everything with a grain of salt. In my opinion so far, HOME actually isn't really an "encyclopedia" of more detailed events (like many think), but rather in-depth ideas Tolkien had concerning events mostly from the Silmarillion. I would recommend it to you Brego, since the more you read the Silmarillion the more you can appreciate HOME. Like I said though....grain of salt. You'll get so absorbed that you sometimes forget it isn't technically part of the story, so when you come across inconsistencies it always takes you by surprise. And of course everything that had 2-3 names in the Sil now has 2-3 completely different names. Or at least for the most part.



But honestly, with CT's commentary, it's an excellent collection for Tolkien lovers. I have the 3 part collection right now, and each one is roughly 1500 pages with miniscule print....just to give you an idea of how much content is packed into these things.



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leelee
Posts: 2293

Expanded Silmarillion

Post#7 » Fri Feb 04, 2011 2:29 pm


It is terribly hard for me to say Silmarillion, I almost end of lisping. I hate that. Love the Silmarilion though. :)



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galin
Posts: 1369

Expanded Silmarillion

Post#8 » Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:59 pm


To blather on a bit more: when one reads The History of Middle-Earth volumes one is reading the external history of Tolkien's creativity. Inconsistencies are not unexpected as the stories evolved and branched out over decades, but a given inconsistency is not necessarily internal of course, rather it could simply represent the variation one sees when a later idea is compared to an earlier, arguably abandoned idea.



If someone wanted to avoid the very early stories -- the early tales that held the 'germ' of what would become the Silmarillion -- he or she could maybe start with Morgoth's Ring and The War of the Jewels, which (basically) represents the Silmarillion related texts as updated after Tolkien was 'finished' writing The Lord of the Rings (very basically, the Silmarillion from the early 1950s to the early 1970s).



The 'Sketch' and the 'Silmarillions' of the 1930s will not include ents or Galadriel for instance, as they were discovered later in the process of writing The Lord of the Rings. And as noted already, the nomenclature shifts around, the meanings of some terms get altered in sometimes confusing ways, details get revised, or 'large' ideas get abandoned as Tolkien constantly finds out not only more about Middle-Earth, but what was really 'true' all along.



And some questions simply can't be answered from the evidence, so to speak, as Tolkien didn't know how much scrutiny his draft papers would inspire.



Keep in mind that the 1977 Silmarillion is not the version but a version, and is no more finished or final than the new Children of Hurin (also compiled by Christopher Tolkien). These versions are intended to be one volume versions for readers -- and thus have a significantly different impact on the reader, not unexpectedly, compared to a scholarly presentation of disparate and sometimes confusing drafts spread out over decades.



But the extant Silmarillion is unfinished and disparate -- a draft in progress never to be completed by its creator -- some parts dating as early as 1930 because JRRT never really got to them later.  



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ammornil
Posts: 431
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Expanded Silmarillion

Post#9 » Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:46 am


Welcome to PT, Brego!



And Silmarillion rulles ALL! It's the Bible of Arda. I don't think it to be possible now adays or anydays after for Tolkien's works to be somehow "extended" since the briliant mind that created them is no longer able to do so. We must be simply grateful for what we have, which is a lot, enough for one person to spend a lifetime reading and understanding and not to be able to get it all. Just like the real life!


Nolwe ar alcar >> Wisdom and Glory! Wisdom is in words, Glory- in deeds.
All of this is personal opinion and understanding. For your own opinion read the books written by J. R. R. Tolkien.

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Dain Ironfoot III
Posts: 29

Expanded Silmarillion

Post#10 » Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:30 pm


I do not beleive the text should be tampered with, The Children of Húrin  was thankfully, well written. Yet, should we chance a flub? No, it would be like altering religious texts, bad juju.



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