God in the Movie

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grondmaster
Posts: 25451

God in the Movie

Post#1 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

My slant on the problem of when Saruman went bad, is that we never knew when he was good (his minor roles in The Silmarillion not being considered). By the time we hear about him as a member of the White Council, he is already double dealing, having been corrupted via the Palantir of Orthanc by Sauron. But what do I know. :)
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Allyssa
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God in the Movie

Post#2 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Saruman didn't start out as evil in the movie. Remember that Gandalf initially goes to him for advice and this is how he gets caught.

And Saruman looks so Good (non-evil) in those gorgeous cream robes of his. I think that shows how evil can look Good and decieve even the wisest of people.
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grondmaster
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God in the Movie

Post#3 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Except, either Frodo or Sam would have smelled him out, just like they did with Strider. When Frodo said to Strider in the Prancing Pony parlor (at Bree in FOTR):
'...You have frightened me several times tonight, but never in the way that the servants of the enemy would--well, seem fairer and feel fouler, if you understand.'

'I see,' laughed Strider. 'I look foul and feel fair. Is that it? All that is gold does not glitter, not all those that wander are lost.'
Yes, there was a time when Sarurman wasn't under the control of, or actually evil; however, I think he had fallen years before and that Gandalf just hadn't glimmered to the fact. Saruman probably fell under Sauron's control after Sauron was chased out of Dol Guldor and soon after he moved back into Mordor and gained mastery over the Palantir of Minas Ithil (Minas Morgul) assuming it wasn't the long lost Palantir from Osgiliath.
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PlasticSquirrel
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God in the Movie

Post#4 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Which I'm pretty sure it was. :P
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grondmaster
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God in the Movie

Post#5 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Which I now remember you telling me before. I'm just a slow learner. So when the ungodly turned the 'Tower of the Moon' into Minas Morgal the' Tower of Sorcery' what happened to its Palantir?
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PlasticSquirrel
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God in the Movie

Post#6 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

I'm pretty sure he's got both, and the Ithil stone is still in Minas Morgul, but the Osgiliath one is in Barad-dur. It's just a hunch and I hace no evidence to back it up, but it sounds pretty convincing don't it?
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TomBombadillo
Posts: 2746

God in the Movie

Post#7 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

I'm not in the lore of palantirs, so I won't comment on this one, it's for Grondy to do that... :D

Saruman was evil in the movie from the beginning, cos when Gandalf went to see him for advice, what did Saruman do again? Right, he tried to convince him to join the evil willies, and when Gandalf refused, he was locked up on the pinnacle of the tower. No need to recall that, I think... ;)

But in the book, I think it took him much longer to become evil. Since Gandalf always spoke of him as the wisest of the council, and to Frodo he even said sth like: "I'll ask Saruman for advice, and he'll know what to do, so don't worry." (with stress on "sth like that", cos I really can't recall his exact words).

And since we know that in the old days, Saruman was the wisest man of the council of wise (that is why they appointed him as a leader, for a start) there can be no doubt that he was TURNED evil by Sauron through the Palantir. Through which Palantir, I leave that to you... :)
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Elda
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God in the Movie

Post#8 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

I couldn't say anything about the book that you already don't know but as for the movie...
Saruman called Gandalf"friend" which means that at some point of his life he was GOOD(Gandalf could not be that fooled)and after that Gandalf says:Tell me FRIEND....so I got no idead what the h*** am I talking about :)

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