What Happened to Gallant Captain Faramir?

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valedhelgwath
Posts: 4233

What Happened to Gallant Captain Faramir?

Post#1 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Wow!!!!

So are you studying LotR for your PhD, Sepdet? :D

(and can you shorten your signature to three lines please)

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grondmaster
Posts: 25451

What Happened to Gallant Captain Faramir?

Post#2 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

I still am of the opinion Sepdet must be one of the screenwriters to have gained such insight into the character's minds. :elfbiggrin: But then you and I, Val are guys and as such are more interested in the characters actions rather than their inner feelings.

And we have said all along that when the Extended Edition (EE) TTT DVD comes out, PJ and Company will clear all this funny (peculiar) Faramir business up for us. Sepdet already has it in a nut shell ready for our taking. I'll be surprised if the EE-TTT DVD explains it differently. :orcthumbs:
'Share and enjoy'

Beleg_Strongbow
Posts: 147

What Happened to Gallant Captain Faramir?

Post#3 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Bravo!

Here are some of my comments:

I Hobbits Discovered

Very true. In the book the hobbits pop out of nowhere with their swords (daggers) drawn. This is somewhat akin to the Movie Frodo and Sam (let's just say MF and MS).

II Introductions

Yes, MF&S are very tightlipped, partly because it is expected. Frodo and Sam shouldn't spill their guts before just anyone. Because of the way they were caught and Faramir's first words to them ('Bind their hands') MF&S immediately have misgivings about Faramir, in which case the audience does, as well (simply because Frodo and Sam are the heroes). The change in the sequence of Raid and Capture causes Faramir to get off on the wrong foot with the hobbits. Also, when they are just beginning to talk, Frodo doesn't mention Gandalf other than 'One we lost in Moria.' This took away a common bond between the man and hobbits.

III The Third Companion

Once again, spot on. I wonder what the Professor would say to PJ's change?

IV Boromir

This is the part I disagree with slightly. I think the words 'Dead? How?' are comparative to someone trying to hide something. But the way Elijah Wood says the words in the movie they are more devastated than anything. 'Dead?!? No, that can't be!' And, if I'm not mistaken, Sam has a moment of shellshock himself.

I'm banging my head against the wall trying to remember what Faramir's response is, but I can't. But the close up on Faramir's face does give you a sense of shellshock, and also gives the audience an uneasy feeling.

I think that M-Faramir isn't that different from Book Faramir. When someone is reading the book there isn't an actor standing there saying the lines, and everyone has a slightly different version (but similar generally) of how the characters are talking. In my mind B-Faramir was grieving the loss of his brother, but he knew that it shouldn't rule his life--his brother was dead, but he was not. This is very much like the Faramir in the movie. Frodo and Sam catch him at a moment when he let it slip a bit, which would be reasonable, because Frodo and Sam knew Boromir, and were there in his last hours.

V. Catching Gollum

What I noticed in the movie that was not in the book was the pity evoked for Gollum/Sméagol. This change affected Faramir as much as anybody. If I may borrow your format, sepdet, let's zero in on Frodo and Gollum in the Forbidden Pool.

Book: Frodo comes upon Gollum, who is hissing and cursing the hobbits and men: "Dirty hobbits, nasty hobbits. Gone and left us...Throttle them, precious. Throttle them all, yes, if we gets the chances." When Sméagol sees Frodo, he insists that he "Must finish fish." Because of this Frodo threatens him "I shall take Precious, and I shall say: make him swallow the bones and choke. Never taste fish again. Come, Precious is waiting." Gollum follows hesitantly. "Come or Precious will be angry," Frodo says. Frodo has a little pity for Gollum, but not enough to keep him from threatening 'poor Sméagol' with his precious.

Movie: Frodo comes upon Gollum singing a cute, funny song: "Rock and pool is nice and cool, so juicy sweet! Our only wish to catch a fish, so juicy SWEET!" MF would never dream of threatening this pitiful creature, who has come to be almost a friend to him, with the only thing Gollum loves, so Frodo goads him into coming by calling him like a little puppy. Gollum is such a pitiful and trusting creature it seems cruel and worthy of disgust when Faramir's men catch him.

If one were to widen the scope, Frodo, Sam, and Gollum/Sméagol changed. As with all of the characters, you see more into their inner conscious--especially Gollum, he talks to himself about it.

IV Learning about the Ring

What else is there to say? :D

V Deciding what to do about It

It is decidedly so. With the information provided to him in the movie, Faramir made the best choice he could.

VI To Osgiliath

Apart from trusting Frodo, he also needs more time to see what Frodo and Sam will do--essentially continuing his lab experiment. It can be given to Faramir's credit he did not take the ring from Frodo. He just said it would go to Gondor, letting Frodo keep it (a very wise choice).

One reason I approve of the Osgiliath scene being added to the movie is simply because it was AWESOME! Seriously though, this scene gives me hope that the Deprived Moviegoers (the ones who have not read the books) will understand Faramir more in the future.

One thing that could be debated upon is the interpretation of "Now we understand each other." A few reasonings I have found on other sites are:

Faramir is fighting for exactly what Sam [in the monologue] is talking about.


and:

He [Faramir] understands Frodo's mission. At the same time, he knows that Frodo has seen the devastation of Mordor on Gondor, and that Frodo knows that Faramir will die if he doesn't bring the ring to his father, and so he knows Frodo can see why he did what he did.

Thus...
And now, I think, we understand each other.


There are many different interpretations, and I think most of them are plausible (I did read somewhere that Faramir's evil twin took his place!)

The bit about Sam reminding Faramir of his brother is very moving...I shall contemplate this.


Conclusion: You have done a great justice to Faramir fans everywhere.


Wooffy_Elendil
Posts: 61

What Happened to Gallant Captain Faramir?

Post#4 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

WOW! Ur studying lotr at college? LUCKY u! Im 13 so I cant yet. But im studying it by reading the books. Hope u do well!

Alli

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Tyrhael
Posts: 1187

What Happened to Gallant Captain Faramir?

Post#5 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

I believe that LotR PhD business was meant as a joke, Woofy_Elendil. Not that sepdet couldn't qua,ify for such an honor. :P:

Anyway, I agree with what PJ said in the Ext. DVD that having Faramir blatantly say 'No' to the Ring and be gallant would destroy the image that the cast and crew worked so hard to support; that the Ring was treacherous and that it was extremely difficult so say No to it; you just can't have a main character ignore (for the most part, in one sense of the word anyway) the Ring. So while it doesn't follow the book, it was inevitable because of previous thematic and realistic ideas in PJ's interpretation of LotR.

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virumor
Posts: 3567

What Happened to Gallant Captain Faramir?

Post#6 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Anyway, I agree with what PJ said in the Ext. DVD that having Faramir blatantly say 'No' to the Ring and be gallant would destroy the image that the cast and crew worked so hard to support; that the Ring was treacherous and that it was extremely difficult so say No to it; you just can't have a main character ignore (for the most part, in one sense of the word anyway) the Ring. So while it doesn't follow the book, it was inevitable because of previous thematic and realistic ideas in PJ's interpretation of LotR.

If those lads would have just followed the books then PJ wouldn't have to use those tricks which resulted in a bad movie. But i agree that in PJ's (lousy) adaptation, it is fitting.
nn[Edited on 4/12/2003 by virumor]
Give up the Halfring, she-elf...

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Vee
Posts: 2711

What Happened to Gallant Captain Faramir?

Post#7 » Sat Feb 21, 2004 5:43 pm

Anyway, I agree with what PJ said in the Ext. DVD that having Faramir blatantly say 'No' to the Ring and be gallant would destroy the image that the cast and crew worked so hard to support; that the Ring was treacherous and that it was extremely difficult so say No to it; you just can't have a main character ignore (for the most part, in one sense of the word anyway) the Ring. So while it doesn't follow the book, it was inevitable because of previous thematic and realistic ideas in PJ's interpretation of LotR.


I found Faramir (shutup Vir) to be a very powerful character in the book and I feel if PJ had shown the true Faramir it would have worked but they would have needed to follow through and show the true character which would include all the bits in ROTK that were missed out and a completely different Frodo/Faramir meeting. I think it was judged that Faramir could be cut down to a minor major character and therefore reduced to status of just a good man rather than a Man of Numenor.

Faramir was mugged!

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virumor
Posts: 3567

What Happened to Gallant Captain Faramir?

Post#8 » Tue Feb 24, 2004 4:25 am

Faramir was mugged!

Yes, it didn't look very gallant how he was dragged to daddy by his horse. Strange though, that i don't really mind what happened to Faramir, i am more inclinded to object to what happened to Elrond and Arwen. Maybe i am just trying to annoy Vee. :grin:

Still, movie Faramir is and stays a monstruosity.
Give up the Halfring, she-elf...

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Vee
Posts: 2711

What Happened to Gallant Captain Faramir?

Post#9 » Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:03 am



Maybe i am just trying to annoy Vee.



Now why would anyone want to that? I am such a sweet, loveable, fluffy pussycat....


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HobbitHomie05
Posts: 389

What Happened to Gallant Captain Faramir?

Post#10 » Tue Feb 24, 2004 10:48 am

that i don't really mind what happened to Faramir


How could you say that!! He was almost killed!!! :dead: :verysad: :shakehead:

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