Do you like the movies?

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gandalf-olorin
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Do you like the movies?

Post#71 » Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:35 am

Thanks, V, and I agree about Faramir too. Vir, what's that about April? I must have missed that.

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eruwen
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Do you like the movies?

Post#72 » Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:19 pm

I think Vir was displaying his usual wit and sarcasm. ;)

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grondmaster
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Do you like the movies?

Post#73 » Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:18 pm

I think Vir was displaying his usual wit and sarcasm.

I believe he was complaining about PJ's killing of the girlie leader of the Elven contingent during the Battle of the Hornburg. :teacher:
'Share and enjoy'

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gandalf-olorin
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Do you like the movies?

Post#74 » Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:28 pm

Oh, Haldir is April? It would figure for Virumor to think of that kind of a nickname for him. I thought Haldir was alright in the movie. He just didn't belong at Helm's Deep.

Morambar
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Do you like the movies?

Post#75 » Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:23 am

Short form of an old rant: I'm conflicted, because Jackson did all the impossible things like the atmosphere and special effects well, but totally dropped the ball on following a plot someone else wrote FOR him a half century ago. It's not like there's a shortage of scholars who could have helped him get it right. And yes, the wizards duel between Saruman and Gandalf never happened, which makes as much sense from what we know of the Professor as it does Jackson felt the need to put some sorcery into the Trilogy, despite the fact it didn't belong (same deal with Sarumans possession of Theoden.) And apparently everyone in Lorien is a descendant of Finarfin, surprsing, since he was a Nolda and they all Sindarin. I tolerated all of this, even the replacement of Glorfindel (of my beloved Gondolin) with vacant eyed Liv Tyler (though after what happened to Celebrian there's no way Elrond was letting her wander the countryside in the middle of a war.) But when we go to "Go home, Sam!" I almost walked out of the theater. The unbreakable friendship of Sam and Frodo is one of the great themes of the Trilogy, and even if that weren't true, you don't just turn around from Cirith Ungol and "go home" from Mordor.

Oh, and the Battle of the Pelennor (the climax of the series, ) once more from the top: when thousands of heavy cavalry show up on infantrys flank (much less undisciplined Orcs) the latter don't turn 180° on a dime to face them. They die, painfully, messily and quickly. Books of have been written on how to turn an infantry formation, and the bottom line is you turn pikemen on the march; that's why it's called a "turning MOVEMENT!" And it's not accomplished quickly even with the best troops, which Orcs are not. There's three ways I know to stop a charge of heavy cavalry: archers behind pikes facing the horses, a stout and well disciplined hedge hog/porcupine/pincushion or a counter charge. When your pikes get flanked, the only remaining viable option is the last one, but that's not we saw in the movie, we saw the Orcs, all however many tens of thousands of them, neatly pivot around to face the charge. Bull. They get ridden into the turf their blood rapidly turns to mud. Or a lance clean through their middle; take your pick....

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Lord Of All
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Do you like the movies?

Post#76 » Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:38 am

I think you have been playing too much 'Battle for middle-earth' on the PC.

I don't exactly know why, if the Orcs have stopped proceding forward, the Pikes cannot then just come to the side which is about to be attacked (remember Theoden is a fair way off in the film) and then all the pikeman lower there pikes. What exactly are you trying to say? That all the orcs were so compact that they couldn't move between eachother? If so then you will notice that they are only very compact at the beginning of the battle. When they start entering Minas Tirith they loosen up.

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eruwen
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Do you like the movies?

Post#77 » Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:00 am

Quote Morambar:
But when we go to "Go home, Sam!" I almost walked out of the theater. The unbreakable friendship of Sam and Frodo is one of the great themes of the Trilogy, and even if that weren't true, you don't just turn around from Cirith Ungol and "go home" from Mordor.

You are absolutely right! I felt the same way about the battle with the Wargs, and Aragorn falling off of the cliff. Do you really think Legolas and Gimli would simply look over the edge, and say, oh well, farewell then. No way! They would have been looking for him as desperately as they were looking for any sign of the hobbits. He was only the last Heir of Elendil afterall. Grrrr...

*I still like the movies though...even with all of these frustrations. Perhaps it is just the feeling they give in general with the scenery and music and such..."

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virumor
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Do you like the movies?

Post#78 » Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:31 am

I liked the little rinkle in Arwen's brow when she was angry. And that dress she wore in that flashback scene in TTT was sooooooo beautiful!
Give up the Halfring, she-elf...

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gandalf-olorin
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Do you like the movies?

Post#79 » Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:32 am

Once again, I find myself agreeing with Morambar 100%! You have an amazing knowledge of battle formations from the old days, which I doubt could come from playing a PC game. I could not speak to this kind of problem in the movies because my expertise doesn't lie in that area at all. And yes, there were all those other changed pieces that we somehow put up with because we knew PJ had to change something in film. I know there ought to have been plenty of scholars around to assist PJ, and I think the EE materials show that he consulted a couple (Shippey for one).

And the EE also showed what pains he took to shoot some scenes--especially the one that he shot last with Elijah Wood in Frodo's study. He made Elijah do the scene over and over because he was so reluctant to end the whole thing. And then when PJ finally could not make Elijah do it again, he called it, and cried on Elijah's shoulder. It's all there on the last movie's EE.

So why he thought it "necessary" to make the changes he did is something of a mystery, even when there is an explanation given. Drama does not demand the number he made. Certainly, even allowing for artistic differences, he could have asked Tolkien experts and even the fans what they wanted. I think he did consult the fans before putting out the EE's--but I think PJ's own interpretation won out.

As I said, before the 10th anniversary edition comes out, someone needs to mount a campaign that he make some further editing--yes, even if he has to call the cast together and reshoot! It's been done--he did it for the EE's. This is the only way I can think of to return the movies to the standard we all expected of them.

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Lord Of All
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Do you like the movies?

Post#80 » Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:49 am

Gandalf - so your solution is to bring back all the cast and make the movies again, when the first ones have been titled the best films ever? He is just going to re-shoot the whole thing becuase about 3% of his audience who are Tolkien fans thought it no good? Think again, and neither would he need to.

What would be more constructive is trying to get him to do a really good Silmarillion trilogy - that would be a wicked film. The Hobbit I beleive is already planned?

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