Arwen's son

irima-arwen
Posts: 65

Arwen's son

Post#1 » Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:10 am

It was nice how they put Arwen's son in the movie, but it was not needed. In the begining of the movie when Arwen and Aragorn was standing on the bridge she said she would become mortal for him. Then the rest of the movies goes and makes the relatonship all complicated. By Arwens not going and she is she's not going and she is. Arwen is not going, everone who read the books knew she was not going. It just made me mad all the did that.
~Irima-arwen

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Vee
Posts: 2711

Arwen's son

Post#2 » Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:26 am

Not much is said about their son except his name, Eldarion, and that he succeeded Aragorn. The film used him as a ploy to get her to change her mind about leaving blah blah which we know she wasn't going to anyway....

One thing that does intrigue me is that she
became as a mortal woman and yet it was not her lot to die until all that she had gained was lost.
(Appendix A)

I take this to mean that her husband, family, friends are all dead (or those closest to her) because her life would still be longer (I thought) than ordinary mortals.

Then she said farewell to Eldarion, and to her daughters, and to all whom she had loved; and she went out from the city of Minas Tirith....
(Appendix A)

Does this imply that she had already seen them grow and die or were these people, her children and those she loved, still alive? I can't see a mother willingly leaving her children to run of and die in the wilderness?

irima-arwen
Posts: 65

Arwen's son

Post#3 » Tue Jun 22, 2004 12:46 pm

I don't remember if they said Arwen's son in the book. But i was interestead in Arwen's and Aragorn's story and in the back of the ROTK it had a pretty short story of them, the begining and the ending. It is a sad story. Arwen is not the first to give up her immortality, there was Beren and Luthien, who is realated to Arwen and Aragorn. But Arwen dieing would not be a suprise to her because giving up her immortality she new she wold die. Also when putting Eowyn in the story of them more than she should of been, it appeared the t Aragorn liked her, and finally at the end he told her that he did not like her. If they would of just left Aragorns and arwens story to how the book but it, wouldn't of been as complicated as they put it.
~Irima-Arwen

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valedhelgwath
Posts: 4233

Arwen's son

Post#4 » Tue Jun 22, 2004 3:30 pm

Does this imply that she had already seen them grow and die or were these people, her children and those she loved, still alive? I can't see a mother willingly leaving her children to run of and die in the wilderness?


From Appendix A, RotK

"Not before my time," he answered. "for if I will not go now, then I must soon go perforce. And Eldarion our son is a man full-ripe for kingship."


I think after being with Aragorn for 120 years it is reasonable to assume their children were adults when Aragorn died and Arwen left for Lorien. Eldarion is described as a man full-ripe for kingship. To me, that implies he is old enough to be considered wise, but not old (by Numenorian standards).

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adweena
Posts: 104

Arwen's son

Post#5 » Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:13 pm

I have a question did Aragorn want to die because the book said he just started feeling old.

...yet at last he felt the approach of old age and knew that the span of his life-days was drawing to an end...


irima-arwen
Posts: 65

Arwen's son

Post#6 » Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:15 pm

Bit confused here. When Arwen left to go into the wilderness(and die). She must of known that her son was ready to take over the throne, because if he wasn't then she wouldn't of left. What book said Aragorn was old, and why would he die because a book said he was old. I probley didn't understand it right. ~Irima-Arwen

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virumor
Posts: 3567

Arwen's son

Post#7 » Wed Jun 23, 2004 11:30 am

Bit confused here. When Arwen left to go into the wilderness(and die). She must of known that her son was ready to take over the throne, because if he wasn't then she wouldn't of left. What book said Aragorn was old, and why would he die because a book said he was old. I probley didn't understand it right

After Aragorn died, that was in the year 120 IV. Arwen then went to Lothlorien, lived there alone for one year and finally laid herself to rest on the hill of Cerin Amroth. Aragorn wasn't really old when he died (208 years i think), although older than anyone else in Middle-Earth but not compared to former Numenorean Kings, but he chose to die because he felt his old age come... had he chosen to stay for awhile, he would have grown old and decripit.

All this you can read in the Appendices of LOTR, 'the tale of Aragorn and Arwen'. The appendices are normally included with ROTK, but not always...

Concerning Eldarion, apart from a son Arwen and Aragorn also had 5 daughters, whose names JRRT never mentioned.
Give up the Halfring, she-elf...

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Nilgaerien
Posts: 624

Arwen's son

Post#8 » Wed Jun 23, 2004 11:32 am

Then she said farewell to Eldarion, and to her daughters, and to all whom she had loved; and she went out from the city of Minas Tirith....
(Appendix A)

Does this imply that she had already seen them grow and die or were these people, her children and those she loved, still alive? I can't see a mother willingly leaving her children to run of and die in the wilderness?


I've always thought they were still alive when she left but it does say "had loved." Past tense meaning something perhaps?

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virumor
Posts: 3567

Arwen's son

Post#9 » Wed Jun 23, 2004 11:34 am

Her children were still alive, only Aragorn was dead, as Arwen died one year after Aragorn's death in 120 IV.

So it was still possible for her to just keep on living as a widow with the rest of her family in Minas Tirith... with her son and daughters... don't know why she left so suddenly, actually. Of course, losing her father because she chose Aragorn already was very hard, losing Aragorn was even harder... maybe she just grew weary of life and chose to die after a short period of 'mourning'.
Give up the Halfring, she-elf...

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valedhelgwath
Posts: 4233

Arwen's son

Post#10 » Wed Jun 23, 2004 11:54 am

I have a question did Aragorn want to die because the book said he just started feeling old.


Before Sauron made the Numenorians fear death and it became known as the Curse of Men, death was actually a gift, the Gift of Men. Men are not tied to the fate of Middle Earth. They have a part to play in the Second Great Music with Iluvatar (eg. Heaven). In the early days, when this was understood, the Numenorians would lay down their lives when they felt the approach of old age rather than cling to life and become infirm. They did not fear death, for they had faith in the Gift.

By doing the same when he felt old age approach him, Aragorn is showing his true heritage and nobility. He is showing he is more akin to the early great Numenorian kings than those which followed. He has faith in Iluvatar and the Gift of Man.

Numenorians incidentally, lived long life spans and tended remain in their prime almost to the end. When old age did begin to show, therefore, they tended to age very fast and die shortly after (a few years maybe). When Aragorn began to feel old age, therefore, he knew within a few years he would quickly age and die if he did not choose to lay down his life while he was still healthy. He chose the path of his ancestors and chose not to spend the last few years of his life becoming aged and infirm.

don't know why she left so suddenly, actually. Of course, losing her father because she chose Aragorn already was very hard, losing Aragorn was even harder... maybe she just grew weary of life and chose to die after a short period of 'mourning'.


I think that is very much the case, Vir. Elves could die of a broken heart, and even though Arwen had chosen the mortal path in the end, she had lived the majority of her life as an Elf. The loss of Aragorn would have made her life so empty she would have wearied of life. I think it rather significant that Lothlorien was empty when she returned there too.... No comfort. She was the last of her people, and it was time to move on.

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